How John 3 explains how to interpret Genesis One (Changed Topic Title)


(Ray Bailey) #1

As I said above, my studies have lead me to connect John 3 with Genesis 1:1-2.

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Genesis 1:1-2
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…"

What are the beautiful heavens and majestic earth? The seventh and tenth words in the first line of scripture is undefined yet. There is nothing to go by. If we stand on Material Rock (YEC) we must assume it is the air and the earth. However, those are yet to be described. And our Biblical Rock–Jesus–might have another way of looking at it. Standing on him and his words, we have a very common-sense explanation for the material creation controversy. Let’s go to one of the most used and ignored passages in scripture.

[Quote=“John 3:1-17 NASB”]
(1) Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; (2) this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
(3) Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
(4) Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”
(5) Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (6) "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) "Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ (8) “The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
(9) Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”
(10) Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things? (11) "Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony. (12) "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
(13) "No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. (14) "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; (15) so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal [everlasting] life.
(16) "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal [everlasting] life. (17) "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
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Premise #1: Jesus is the definer of all Biblical Cosmology, the rock of all there is in creation. What he says about spiritual and earthly matters takes precedent over all others who would define Biblical Cosmology based on their own interpretation. He is the final and best Priest, Prophet and King.

Premise #2: John 3:16 is arguably the most important verse in the entire Bible. Without it, there is no Rock to stand on. Without Salvation (the Hebrew word yeshua—Jesus to English speakers), there is no purpose in the creation story or the rest of the Bible.

Premise #3 Word associations in scripture are of vital importance. Repetition and juxtaposition of words carry the weight of determining meaning in Hebrew. The words surrounding John 3:16 are part of the package. The entire conversation has to be taken as a whole. I have found no other reference in scripture other than Genesis 1:1-2 that these word pairings match that of John 3 in either usage or juxtaposition.

Premise #4: Context of words shapes whether they are competing or complimenting. Difficult passages can be explained by more detailed readings elsewhere. This is how we interpret scripture with scripture. This is where the associated word groupings in premise #3 comes in.

Explaining Creation from John Chapter 3

Note that the deep and everlasting life (see note) are the only two words not immediately identified as paired.
We need to note oppositions and pairings often used in scripture:

(Note: I prefer the term Everlasting Life as technically Eternal can only apply to the Godhood itself. Everlasting denote a starting but never ending condition that is an important distinction in this type of discussion. Everlasting was often used in earlier English translations, and for good reason IMHO)

We do not see the word deep often enough to see its relationship to other than water. Is deep in Genesis 1:2 a compliment or contrast to water? David has the answer.

[Quote=“Psa 42:1-11 NASB”]
(1)For the choir director. A Maskil of the sons of Korah. As the deer pants for the water brooks, So my soul pants for You, O God. (2) My soul thirsts for God, for the living God; When shall I come and appear before God? (3) My tears have been my food day and night, While they say to me all day long, “Where is your God?” (4) These things I remember and I pour out my soul within me. For I used to go along with the throng and lead them in procession to the house of God, With the voice of joy and thanksgiving, a multitude keeping festival. (5) Why are you in despair, O my soul? And why have you become disturbed within me? Hope in God, for I shall again praise Him For the help of His presence. (6) O my God, my soul is in despair within me; Therefore I remember You from the land of the Jordan And the peaks of Hermon, from Mount Mizar. (7) Deep calls to deep at the sound of Your waterfalls; All Your breakers and Your waves have rolled over me. (8) The LORD will command His lovingkindness in the daytime; And His song will be with me in the night, A prayer to the God of my life. (9) I will say to God my rock, “Why have You forgotten me? Why do I go mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?” (10) As a shattering of my bones, my adversaries revile me, While they say to me all day long, “Where is your God?” (11) Why are you in despair, O my soul? And why have you become disturbed within me? Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him, The help of my countenance and my God.

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David is deeply distressed. In verse 2 asking, “When shall I come and appear before Elohim?”
The breakers and waves of the waterfall are being referred to as an emotional spiritual battering. The tone of the entire Psalm suggests David is weary of life, wishing to either return to younger days, or to meet his Lord. Verse 10 is similar to Psalm 22 foreseeing Jesus’ crucifixion, the tone here is the same with mortality in view. His last plea is (11) “Hope in God.” He is despairing of life and an afterlife with Elohim seems the only answer. The battering deep waters calls him to the relief of the deep of the afterlife.

The word water as a metaphor for everlasting life is well established in the Gospels by Jesus, so with Psalm 42 we can pair the Deep with the afterlife.

Now we can redraw our word box with all the pairings in place.

It completes the purpose of the creative act to include the deep. Especially as “Spirit moved over face of the deep.” It is saying Holy Spirit was hovering in the deeps of eternity, looking over the newly created—yet unformed—spiritual and physical cosmos: The Material Creation.

We have finished linking the Jesus’ central teaching on the meaning of life to creation. It connects the entire creation narrative to the purpose that Elohim, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit had for creating in the first place. It gives the full meaning and understanding to the first verse of the Bible. What we usually assume John 3:16 is all about everlasting life, but now we see it points back at creation drawing the entire cosmos into an everlasting circle consistent with what we read in the final chapters of Revelation.

It also lays the groundwork for the creation account to follow. The purpose of the creation account is not to explain HOW we got here. It is to explain WHY. Material creation is evident in that it happened in 1:1-2. How it happened is not even on the horizon for the purposes of the book. It is like height from depth and east from west. It makes no sense to drive the creation narrative into a time and space-limited meaning that has no purpose to the intent of the Bible.

The Bible is about a relationship between our deity and ourselves. It is why we were made. The mechanics of the creative process are not of importance to the message. As far as the Bible is concerned the Scandal of Particularity has no reason to answer the materialistic or scientific questions of the 21st century, nor for any prior centuries. We’re asking the wrong questions and fighting the wrong battles in defense of a deity who has no need to fight such a battle. Our battle is against the “powers of the air” (spiritual).

Obviously that does not mean we don’t engage in debate and conversation. But we should not wring the scripture into something it is not saying for the sake of defending that very scripture’s integrity! Can anyone say that the Evangelical Church (as a system) is not at least a little corrupted by the world? What does Revelation say about the church in the last days? Think about it… What are we truly defending by asserting a 24/7 creation account?

This interpretation allows us the freedom to honor both the purpose of Elohim our deity, to firmly pair Genesis creation account with John 3:16 in purpose (Why), and allow us to investigate the validity of an Evolutionary Creation account for How.

NOTE: Scandal of Particularity as it applies to Jesus, is also applicable to the Creation account as it was written TO the ancient Israelites, and FOR us.

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Okay, there it is. What do you think? That is my view of Genesis 1:1-2.


The Sabbath day?
My view of Genesis 1-2
(Ray Bailey) #2

Creation according to Genesis 1:1-2 and John 3 con’t

Here is a graphic to explain what the above means. The illustration is to show the complete creation of all material things were done within Genesis 1:1-2. All that follows is after is Cosmic Temple Narrative.

Elohim.
The combined tri-unity of the Godhood. Each primary RBG color bleed into one another providing a visual representation of how three separate things can be combined into one unified whole, three-in-one.

YHWH Father. Color Blue for Royalty.

YESHUA Jesus, Son. Sits at right hand of Father. Color, Red for Royalty and humanity (Blood)

Holy Spirit, Color Green for Life.

Creation comes out of the center of the godhood, crafted by Jesus (hand of creation, the “seen” and Holy Spirit “unseen”. Both together the same way the colors above blend together. The Material and the Spirit world are both mixed together with the seen unable to see the unseen (with exceptions).

Note: This is my work I have spent years on it. This is its first outing! I would appreciate if you would credit me if you copy this for any reason. Thank you!

Discussion?

Ray :sunglasses:


Is the spiritual less real?
(Ray Bailey) #3

I changed the Title to be clearer on the purpose of the Topic.


(Ray Bailey) #4

Hello!
@gbrooks9 @Mervin_Bitikofer @Reggie_O_Donoghue @John_Dalton @GJDS @Relates

I have read or interacted with you lately, so I thought I would ask.

I posted this and getting some views, but no discussion. I have worked on this for a long time. I am wondering If I have a valid observation or am imagining things. Could you please look it over and let me know what you think. Am I out in left field?

I am posing that Genesis 1:1-2 is the only place we can actually see the scientific part of the creation happening, with the rest being EC and cosmic Temple/Religious function.John 3 reinforces the function of Creation.

Thanks, Ray :sunglasses:


(RiderOnTheClouds) #5

Possibly, but I find it hard to see how Genesis 1:1 represents a creative action, since the heavens are made on the second day.


(Ray Bailey) #6

Thanks Reggie,

However "Heavens is in Genesis 1:1-2. And we have a long history of believing Gen 1:1-2 was the initial creation using the word "Bara"
I am trying to make a case that everything that flow after (all the days of creation) are part of the functional narrative and not the material creation. All material creations is at what we used to call the “Bara” out of nothing stage (now the Big Bang).

As for the Heavens referred to in Gen 1:1-2

[Quote=“The Hebrew Heavens”]
Definitions. The phrase “heaven and earth” is used to indicate the whole universe ( Genesis 1:1 ; Jeremiah 23:24 ; Acts 17:24 ). According to the Jewish notion there were three heavens,

I believe that Jesus was referring to the initial Heavens as related to the paired Earth., which would make it the 2nd Heaven the world of the spirit realm (angels and fallen angels) (the Unseen)
The Heaven you refer to would be the lowest heaven. I am speaking of the Middle Heaven (unseen). Why would Jesus indicate it couldn’t be seen until one was born again, if it was the sun and moon?


(George Brooks) #7

@RLBailey,
In my view, your work on the Gospel of John is geared more to the refined tastes of Christian mystics than those who are drawn to a more naturalistic or even scientific view of Creation. I wouldn’t say you are out in left field. I would say that you have planted a very beautiful flower in a field that is very far away from urban settlements (in terms of psychological distance).

And so you find that you are spending a lot of energy carrying people to your flower … and bringing water to your flower.

But there are valleys where swarms of people would marvel at your labors! But I have not been to those valleys myself.


(Ray Bailey) #8

Oh, George. You do understand even if you claim to not have been to those valley’s yourself! I agree with you in that I have “felt” like I have been seeing things nobody else tends to see. I have had trouble finding people who understand this view, and thinking I am way off track. But somehow it keep piquing my attention.
Now if I can find that valley…

Thanks, my first friend in BioLogos!

Blessings :sunglasses:


(system) #9

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