In their defense, what I put in bold is actually true in the deep sense: no serious theology can be built on translations. It can be expounded once established, but not built.
Besides that, we’re told that no scripture is to be interpreted solo.
They also had an immense advantage over most: as first-century Jews they were familiar with the scriptures on a level not matched by many but grad students in biblical literature in modern times. Reading, hearing, and discussing the scriptures was in effect every Jew’s first hobby back then.
Also they weren’t operating solo; they were examining the scriptures as a group, not as a bunch of individuals.
There is some truth to what you say. But although, I’ve not been to seminary I have been able to study ANE culture on my own (thanks to the material published by the grad students you mentioned). Even the most basic study of ANE culture will open up the scriptures to a large degree. It’s not rocket science.
How do you know that? Besides, truth is not determined by committee.
I wonder what the devil (and his spirit minions) does while God causes His children to suffer?
People die in this world. Even the most stern coach has the compassion to avoid that. To think said coach has more care for his charges than God! Really?
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
I can understand that easy enough. In light of such a plain declaration, why would you doubt who does what?
Very true. We should not be deterred. After all. we are more than conquerors (Rom 8:37).
But the discussion is about who causes suffering, God or the devil? It would seem strange indeed that God would torture us just because He made us able to overcome only to torture us again so we could overcome again and on and on until we die.
I think something God created in His own image dying is about as bad as it gets.
But we are talking about suffering of all kinds which would include whatever you think is worse than death. Specifically, who causes said suffering, God or the devil?
BTW, I’m talking about this life. I know that the second death is worse than the first death, but that’s another thing altogether.
Sometimes the suffering is of our own lack of faith and mistaken interpretations of the circumstances? The disciples in the boat during the storm on Galilee suffered fear and anxiety:
And he said to them, “Why are you afraid, O you of little faith?” Then he rose and rebuked the winds and the sea, and there was a great calm. [And they had to row all the rest of the way. ] Matthew 8:26
Little children are frequently amazing how well they handle serious disease, even terminal disease, and we are to be childlike.
Away despair; my gracious Lord doth heare.
Though windes and waves assault my keel,
He doth preserve it: he doth steer,
Ev’n when the boat seems most to reel.
Storms are the triumph of his art:
Well may he close his eyes, but not his heart.
I’m not arguing that this life can be painful. Nor am I arguing that with God’s help we can overcome adversity and increase our faith as a result.
What I am arguing is that God does not cause the suffering. He’s not so dumb that He has to resort to pain in order to teach His children. Instead He uses His goodness to draw us nearer to Him.
Rom 2:4,
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
I think John 10:10 is clear on who does what in this world:
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
It could be argued that “he caused” the storm on Galilee or that "he caused” my kidney cancer by allowing me to live in a world where mutations in DNA happen! (As mentioned elsewhere, it was remarkably untraumatic with minimal pain and no chemo or radiation, in his mercy and grace. But if you’ve read the account (not a literary masterpiece ), it magnifies his sovereignty from the molecular scale even to the astronomical. (It does even if you haven’t read it. ) But I don’t consider myself to have suffered, so maybe it’s beside the point. (My wife, though, did have a couple of short meltdowns when my urologist wouldn’t prescribe home health, because we had no clue what the recovery was going to look like – she is ‘semi-invalid’ and pretty much housebound. We put the emphasis 2nd syllable of ‘invalid’. )
Since the email from your Pastor was dated 6 years ago, I assume you are fine now. I’m glad for you on that account. If we use the Gospels as a guide, I don’t see any disease or sickness that God can’t heal. I think you are a living example of that. I think it really neat that you kept your faith throughout the whole ordeal.
I think instead of talking about the “cause” of suffering, it might be better to talk about the “source” of suffering.
I think if we see the devil as the source of suffering we no longer have to make excuses for why God supposedly caused the suffering. God does not cause suffering, including genetic mutations that result in cancer. I’d be curious as to where your Pastor got that idea, specifically, chapter and verse in the scriptures.
Do Christians no longer believe in the devil? Either they don’t or if they do believe he exists, they must think he does nothing to God’s people. He just lets it up to God to make His children suffer.
I’m sorry, but I have to say I find the whole idea that God gave you cancer (if that is in fact what you suggest) incredibly repulsive. He’s my Father and He’s the best Father that ever lived or will ever live. He loves His children way more than I love my dog and I’d never ever purposely cause him to suffer in any way.
As I write this my spirit is stirring in a major way. I absolutely hate and reject any suggestion that my God, the God who sacrificed His only begotten son for me, would then turn around and then cause me suffering of any kind. There are tons of verse where someone asks God for deliverance. That’s His business; deliverance. He is not in the business of causing His children suffering in any way, shape, or form. I feel sad and somewhat angry that anyone, let alone a Christian, would suggest otherwise. It’s my Father they are defaming and I can’t just take that lightly. It’s a lie from the pit of hell, from the place where suffering is actually born and bred.
Maybe take another close look at John 10:10. There is also this:
Ps 143:3,
For the enemy hath persecuted my soul; he hath smitten my life down to the ground; he hath made me to dwell in darkness, as those that have been long dead.
As far as God being in control of everything that happens here, why do you suppose the devil is called the, “god of this world,” “the prince of the power of the air,” “principalities and powers from on high,” and other such appellations? Yahweh gave authority over the world to man. God never was “in charge” of this world. Unfortunately man as screwed things up beyond recognition, but a day is coming when a man, our Lord Jesus Christ, will come down to earth again, set up the promised kingdom. He’ll beat the devil and regain the power to rule the earth. At that time it can be said that God is in control, and there will be no more genetic mutations resulting in cancer. That’s His will and it’s always been His will from the beginning.
First off, I never said God caused suffering. What I actually said was in scare quotes, since it is passive. I also did not say God caused the storm or my cancer directly, but I see why you inferred that:
My actual implication was that because he has ordained that we should live in a world where storms happen, storms happen. Storms can be beautiful from a distance, but they can fierce when you are in one, and the peace after them is a great relief. But you can be at peace in them if you remember who is in charge, and it’s not us. On Galilee or in a kidney, storms are under his sovereign control.
You don’t think we can cause our own suffering or be the source of it without help from the devil? Because we live in an imperfect world destined to futility by design where deleterious mutations are routine, we can pretty much expect to get cancer, or at least we should not be surprised by it. (That was Adam’s sin, wasn’t it, or one of them, finding something other than himself to blame?)
I don’t blame anyone for my cancer. Maybe my exercising more could have conceivably made it less likely, so if I wanted to, I could blame myself and feel guilty, but there is nothing that would have guaranteed my not getting it.
]
), it magnifies his sovereignty from the molecular scale even to the astronomical. (It does even if you haven’t read it.