Why do they both have to ‘work’? That is an artificial force fit – it’s not a ‘solution’ but a mirage. One can be true (the first) and the other false (the second). (Panpsychism is false too, in case you missed what #2 being false entails.)
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Or the cause of the universe is not yet aware of its action. Sometimes described as an infinite task. Like the becoming of nothing, or nothing coming to be. That which can contradict itself.
Or the cause of the universe is aware of its action.
One or the other, but not both.
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Rather there is no cause. Material universe existed. Conzciousness embeeded in the material existed. It is evolving
Maybe you are saying that with no evidence because that’s what you want to believe. It also appears contrary to big bang cosmology.
For anything that happens, there are a handful of possible statements: it just happened (without cause), it was caused to happen by something else that happened (to which the same question applies), or it was caused by something that doesn’t happen (and it is either aware of its action or not).
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Agree. Stephen Hawking says we don’t know what existed before big bang. That said, the ab initio creation raises the question wherefrom did the creator arise.
I still think panpsychism provides a possible answer. 1. All matter has consciousness. 2. It is coalesced
3. It self created.
Not if the cause of the universe does not happen.
The issue you might have is with something which can affect change without changing.
As in it didn’t exist, and then caused itself to exist?
What if the universe is in an infinite state of becoming? Nothing really ever happens and objects don’t actually exist. The illusion of Maya or the self?
Contra experience
I’ll agree to that, but neither can something cause itself to exist.
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What does “creation” or “exist” mean? It can apply to change of form. For example, a painter creates a painting. The painting can cease to exist. So also the Universal Consciousness of matter “created” itself, that is, it changed the form of its underlying matter.
No. The matter in Singularity exploded itself.
Changing form is fine, but this is starting to sound like events never actually occur or objects do not really exist.
An object that begins to exist, like a planet or universe, cannot cause itself to exist, if it does not exist.
The “Universal Consciousness” creates a universe, similar to how a painter creates a painting. That’s fine.
Great! Thanks
I’m confused how you see this following from your previous statements.
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This was your post. You seem to be speaking of matter here. I agree that matter cannot be created out of nothing. But the quality of matter can change–like a painting. I understand Biblical creation to be similar change of quality. Hope I have made myself understood. Thanks
So the change is caused by another change which is then caused by another change…
Or the change is caused by something that does not change.
The immediate effect of something that can affect change without changing would look like it comes from nothing.
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It can come from itSelf. Like an flux infinite in time. Contracting into singularity and then exploding forever.
There is nothing that does not change.
That is like saying everything that exists can be experienced