I like it, but why would society be doing that? What would you be doing to evoke that response?
What brings the wrath of the ungodly on those who love and obey God is their hatred for God and righteousness. The same reason they hated Jesus they will hate His followers. His words and actions showed them their sins so they hated Him. Jesus’s words pointed out mans sinfulness.
When a person proclaims that it is only through the atoning sacrifice of the Lamb of God that their sins can be forgiven, they will call you narrow minded and not inclusive enough. Jesus said if they hate me they will hate you also. He came into the world as a light but men hated the light because they loved the darkness of their sin more.
They will hate His followers because they point out sin and tell people to repent, turn from it and turn to God. His followers are the enemy of the god of this world, Satan, who is their lord and master. They approve of their own wicked thoughts, words and deeds and of those who are the same as they are and when Jesus’s people reprove and rebuke those ways they are offended and will cry out, “Away with this person, they shouldn’t be allowed to live”.
It doesn’t take much holiness in a child of God to offend the children of the god of this world. He is a liar and a murderer and so are all who are slaves of him.
A true Christian’s hope is not in this world, we look for a city who’s builder and maker is God. Our life does not consist of what we have, the air we breath or the food we eat, our life is directly from the Father through Jesus, the atoning sacrificial Lamb of God who takes away the sins of those who put all their confidence in Him. Our life is Christ!
Again, what do I need to do to get everyone to hate me? What do I need to say to my loved ones, friends, neighbours? I’m born again pro-nuclear power, that would offend all but one, will that do?
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Tell them they must absolutely submit to Jesus as their Lord, Master, Sovereign Ruler and King. Turn away from all sin, submit to the commands of Jesus that He has spoken to us. Tell them to deny themselves and take up their cross and follow Jesus. Not to love this world or the things of this world. To stop all sexual immorality in thought, word or deed. To pray for their enemies and do good to those who treat them evil, and whatever else is bound up in these two commands, “Love the Lord God with all your heart, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself.”
All you have to do is read the words of Jesus to them, if they are not humble they will not acknowledge their sins and just as people hated Jesus because He proclaimed the ways of the Kingdom of Heaven they will hate those who do the same.
It doesn’t take much for self centered man to hate those who love and obey the Christ.
So I don’t have to actually do anything to address inequality?
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It’s simple Martin. Read the words of Jesus. Speak the words of Jesus to others and call them to repentance. Obey the commands of Jesus.
You’ll get first hand knowledge of what Jesus experienced.
Always making things harder than it has to be.
What Christ did to evoke that response was … he spoke truth to power. And it is usually not pleasant or welcomed truth. When I do that, I can count on getting the same response because a servant isn’t greater than their master, and if that’s what they did to him … they’ll do the same to his followers. The fact that I’m not persecuted or that I’m functioning quite well within existing power structures in our present society is cause for sobering spiritual concern on my part.
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How’s that going for you?
So what words of Jesus do you use? How? Where? When?
You and me both Mervin, in our helpless privilege. How can we flush our lives down the toilet and join Cody? If that’s what Jesus would do? I don’t know anybody powerful I can speak to. But I’m still waiting on Cody on exactly what I should say to my loved ones and friends to completely alienate them and feel magnificently self righteous in my utter solitude having ruined lives, increased poverty all to the good.
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[quote=“Klax, post:335, topic:43599, full:true”]
Gal 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. 16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. 19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious : sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition , dissensions , factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God . 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
I know the source of where these types of fleshly attitudes and the ways of expressing them come from, they are not from Christ. Those who continue to follow them have no part in Christ and no place in the Kingdom of God.
Should I lean over to my wife and read that at her?
And should be for many of us, including yours truly.
Would @Klax ever do anything petty like that? Nah.
Nothing petty about it. Most impressively out of context.
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What? … do you think a carpenter born to a couple of nobodies from backwater Nazareth was all cozy with the aristocracy from Jerusalem? You don’t have to be rubbing elbos with the hoity toity crowd down at the Ritz. All you have to do is openly and repeatedly criticize local powers-that-be around you about ways in which they are taking advantage of others in order to maintain their own power. Or speak truth to the local philanthropist hero that is the hand-that-feeds so much local community and mouths - including maybe even yourself? How many of us are willing to criticize the very power structures that we ourselves may be beneficiaries of, or a part of. Perhaps we’re even the ones with the power!
Nobody’s asking you or me to flush our lives down the toilet. Quiet the opposite, in fact! It’s the guilty people who feel the sting of your words who may be happy to do all the flushing.
I am not speaking here as one busy doing all this myself. I don’t like crosses any more than the next guy. And I don’t think Jesus spent most of his life looking for crosses either. He knew quite well enough that he wouldn’t have to be the one doing the looking.
Overheard conversation between a wealthy pastor and Clarence Jordan (Cotton Patch Gospel) … (according to my memory - details probably wrong.)
Wealthy pastor showing off his church building to Clarence: And check out that large ornate cross towering above our building. That alone cost over 50 grand!
Clarence’s response: “Wow! Time was when a man could get one of those for free!”
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You don’t have to look far for an example of what you have to do to offend others, just look at this conversation. I speak the words of God to you and you take the opportunity to deride, put down or ask other questions that are not meant to understand His words but only meant to cause disruption, dissension, discord and provocation. I bring Christ, you bring chaos.
Again it’s very simple. The actions and words of Jesus easily brings offense to the self righteous.
I wouldn’t be too hasty trying to conclude just who it is here who may exhibiting the most self-righteousness here.
Offending other is not the point … and never was for Jesus either. Offense is the inevitable and unfortunate byproduct of true righteousness speaking truth to wickedness around it. Anyone just looking to offend has already missed the important point.
Since I’m still trying to speak in generalities, I’ll just say it’s not difficult to measure popular opinion on the moral questions dividing this country. Barna and the Pew Forum do it regularly. Most of them are related to sex, sexual orientation, and marriage. That shouldn’t come as a revelation to anyone, but that’s not an invitation to dive into controversial territory. Phil wouldn’t approve. haha
Well said. But I question whether the version of Christian morality that is common currency is the version of Christian morality that actually involves following Christ. The “weightier things” of the law are justice and mercy and faith. The last can’t be legislated, but justice can be a guiding principle, and the biblical version of it is that all are equal before the law. The prophets speak of justice often, and the main difference between Hammurabi’s Code and the Law of Moses was that Babylonian law made a distinction between castes. A person who struck someone higher in social rank was beaten with many lashes, while the Mosaic code prescribed the same punishment for all, even the “stranger” to the covenant. “Equal Justice Before The Law” is a biblical principle inscribed above our Supreme Court building. That is one of the weightier matters we should be concerned about.
What are the “lesser” matters – the 10% of mint, dill, and cumin? As far as society is concerned, I would call them “sins of the flesh.” Predominantly Christian cultures (like ours) have attempted to outlaw various (or all) of them many times, with varying degrees of success. It’s a losing proposition.
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Offense is obviously not the intent of Jesus’s words, that comes because mankind’s sinfulness is confronted with TRUTH. It is things like the following copy of an above post that are clear and straight forward, easy to understand but are not received. They are offensive to mankind because they are from God, His words and nature oppose theirs.
Instead of getting an affirmative agreement, there are just more diverting questions, that should be obvious to all. They are questions that don’t desire true and faithful answers so that a closer relationship with Jesus will be apprehended. It is those who oppose the teachings and acts of Jesus that bring the offense and accusations.
Back to the topic of General and Special Revelation for the moment. General revelation could never have revealed Christ and the salvation He brought through His death, resurrection and ascension. This could only be done through Special Revelation by the Spirit of God.
Christ is Special Revelation.