The cross the wicked wanted for Jesus and want for us is one that will kill our body. They desire it to get rid of the words and lives that show theirs to be evil.
But Jesus tells us, Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? 26 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.”
The cross that they nailed Jesus to, to get rid of Him, is the cross that delivers us from the flesh. As Jesus says, we are to take up our cross daily and follow Him. We are to daily put to death the deeds of the flesh and follow Him. Through His death on the cross and resurrection we who are His are new creations, created in Christ, made new to bring glory and honor to the Father through our righteous deeds, motivated by faith in Him and strengthened by His Spirit. If we try to save our life we will lose it. But if we lose it for His sake we will save it.
If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
349
All very right-on Mervin, but as Steinbeck picked up from Shakespeare, we are In Dubious Battle.
I live 200 yards from the most cosmopolitan street in the UK. This is the UK’s first plural city. The social dimensions here are extreme. Inequality seethes here. And it’s nobody’s fault. Noone is to blame. It’s structural, historic. Nobody is visibly immorally taking advantage of others in order to maintain their own power, there are no heroes here apart from the football, rugby and cricket teams. The Muslim, Hindu, Sikh and Christian communities (not that there is a Christian one) are hands on with the poorest. The Jewish mayor is good. The city tries with limited resources. Because we don’t pay enough tax. And nobody dare put that in their manifesto. The Church says nothing about that.
Christianity did not conquer Rome by speaking truth to power. It ignored it and got on with fulfilling Jesus’ redeclaration of social democracy from the gutter up.
So what would Jesus do in my street? In my church? In my town? My country? My society? What would he, should he say to whom? Through His Church? In actions rather than words?
(We would never do what that wealthy pastor did across the pond would we? I was recently sickened to see the cliché of a church organ appeal still alive and well in a local state church, words fail me. I wonder what words Jesus would use?)
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
350
Aye Jay. We focus on irrelevances while injustice screams in our face.
Some would observe that it was Rome that conquered Christianity there.
I think our power structures are more democratically spread out now. There isn’t an obvious King Herod in town living in luxury compared to everyone else’s squalor. We turned our back on monarchies, but the power at the top didn’t go away - it just got diluted to a much larger set of people (which is movement in the right direction!) But there are still power inequities used to maintain injustice (and especially economic injustice). It’s harder to target these because enough of us are just enough beneficiaries of these power structures so that there is more grass roots support to keep them in place. While that is better than a dictatorship or monarchy, in some ways it makes it harder for the Christian or prophet. Because any finger pointing happening now from most of us must involve finger pointing back at ourselves who participate in these larger power structures. Status Quo has an incredibly powerful grip on us if we fancy that the same is at least somewhat working out for us.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
352
With the temptation of power from the pinnacle. Babylon conquered the Church by letting it win.
As for the rest, for a toe in the water start, why isn’t the Church in America opposing the insanity of the outworking of the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution?
I’ll respond to you privately about that since it is too political for this forum.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
354
That’s appalling Mervin. Absolutely appalling. What about robbing the poor to pay for the rich? With state subsidized employee health insurance? That kind of thing? Too political?
We are all guests here in a forum owned and run by Biologos. Since they are the owners of “the house”, they get to decide the rules for engagement here. And that choice is that this should be a forum about how science and faith relate. There are plenty of other venues out there on the internet to get into all the other stuff.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
356
Fair enough Mervin, but what are the boundaries? This thread has diverged somewhat - British understatement - from how science and faith relate.
Ruling what’s within guidelines or not is more of a subjective art. Forays from science-faith into pure theology stuff … acceptable. Into pure science stuff … also acceptable. Into politics and non-science hot-button issues … not so much. But as to when or how fast a thread gets shut down, that will depend on how much rancor and repetition is there generating attention, … what kind of a day any particular moderator is having at the moment … relative humidity … etc.
