Evolution OR Creation use Science Fact and Biblical Truth

So uh… the defense of creationism and racism go hand in hand for uh this “GodsDisciples” guy?


It does not appear this thread was started out of genuine intellectual or spiritual curiosity. I believe @GodsDisciples probably just wants to confirm his existing ideas that people who accept evolution are godless idiots. Don’t be a headache for me and the moderation team responding to the song and dance with a bunch of snark and button pushing, it accomplishes nothing other than making people look petty and immature. Either engage patiently in good faith because who knows who might be reading this thread with a more open mind, or scroll on by please.


The facts supporting evolution would fill a library. This site is full of such information if you would only look. If you would like just one example of the supporting evidence see

And you might notice that we discuss both sides of the issues.


Evolution is demonstrably true in an empirical sense. The Bible is not demonstrably true and was never intended as a reference book of empirical facts. However the Bible contains truths of the heart relevant to living a good life which anyone can confirm for himself but no one can prove as factual.

Since you’ve not justified any of your opinions which you pass off as facts you are not entitled to ask for ‘proof’ from anyone else. Since neither logic nor geometry is in play, neither is proof.


Here is one flaw that stands out.

You say no one has given Bible verses and then you mention how I just brought up Joshua…….so it seems like the Bible was just brought up huh? Before that you say that the argument I just used was not an argument. What that means is that you did not understand it.

You seem to be confused over what contextual analysis means versus definitions of words.

Again, digging further into you saying no one has mentioned the Bible and yet you bring up how i mentioned that the Bible never says the world is a globe but it’s a circle. So again, you’re mentioning the Bible that I mentioned while claiming no one is mentioning the Bible.

It seems you think unless someone says BCV it means no one is mentioning the Bible. That’s funny since those are modern additions to the text.

You say I don’t like the biblical text…. Yet I’ve been in a Christian forum for over years talking almost daily. You’re trying to lash out with personal attacks because you’ve very triggered. I’m sorry that you’re emotionally maxed out and throwing a textual tantrum. But you should strive to be Christ like and not be rude just for the sake of being rude. You don’t handle contention very well.

So the verse you mentioned is circle, not globe. So that brings us back to my original point.


It’s the same of Proverbs 8:27

When He established the heavens, I was there;
When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,

You keep thinking this is off topic and some kind of misdirect. It’s not. It’s milk instead of solid food….

I have no need to regurgitate everything already stated it I’ll toss a bit out again anyways.

Part of your question is how can someone justify evolution in the face of scripture such as genesis 1-2. The answer is understanding contextual analysis.

If someone said ,” I’m so hungry I could eat a horse” and you read it literally that would mean you missed its point. The point is not the literal interpretation of the words but the point is that they are very hungry.

So to understand genesis 1-2 you must likewise understand genre and the point.

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When it comes to the science of evolution you asked for proof and facts.

Is a tiger and a leopard related? If so what the evidence and facts for it? Is a lion and a domesticated house cat related? What’s the facts? Now I know that all the big cats in the Panther genus are related for three main reasons. 1. They can hybridize. 2. They showcase a basal form. 3. Genetics shows they are related.

Now up above the genus is the family. House cats and lions are both part of family Felidae. Again despite divergent traits we can see their basal form.

Now the same science that shows all of this also shows that all of those animals are in the suborder Feliformia which also includes hyenas. Then when go to the fossil record we see where they showed up. They are not present in every geological layer.

So are lions, leopards , and domesticated cats more closely related to one another than a bear?
Are hyenas more closely related to bears?

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That is not at all what the Christian faith is about, except only incidentally and very secondarily.

“Revelations”? Do you mean “Revelation”?

(Heeding your warning against changing God’s word.)

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True. And rightwing politicians are using it to tap into the fears of their conservative supporters.


What are your “serious problems” with science fact and evolution and the big bang?

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Without exception, every flat, circular, physical object is 3D, so the idea is not false, now is it?

That is factually wrong.

and that is a vacuous assertion.

You took your own OP off topic. Focus. Whatever the merits of CRT, it has little to contribute to the evolution or creation debate.


I believe in electromagnetism before I flick a switch the same way, how does that make ancient Jewish literature not?

Is it Bible Truth that God killed countless millions in the flood, thousands in the nuking of Sodom & Gomorrah and the three other Cities of the Plain as collateral and a million odd in Egypt and

SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cumulative Total
Lot’s wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1
Er who was wicked in the sight of the Lord Gen.38:7, BT 1 2
Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3
For dancing naked around Aaron’s golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3003
Aaron’s sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3005
A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3006
A man who picked up sticks on the Sabbath Num.15:32-36, BT 1 3007
Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3019+
Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3269+
For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 17,969+
For committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab Num.25:9, BT 24,000 41,969+
Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 131,969+
God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 131,974+
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 143,974+
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 153,974+
Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king’s belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 153,975+
God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 163,975+
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 283,975+
The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,005+
The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,005+
Samson’s God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,005+
The Lord smote Benjamin Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,105+
More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,105+
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,175+
God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,195+
Samuel (at God’s command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,196+
The Lord smote Nabal. 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,197+
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,198+
David and Bathsheba’s baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,199+
Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,206+
From plague as punishment for David’s census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,206+
A prophet for believing another prophet’s lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,207+
God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites’ hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 558,207+
God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 585,207+
God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 585,208+
Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 585,209+
Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 585,311+
God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha’s bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 585,343+
Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 585,344+
Jezebel 2 Kg.9:33-37 1 585,355+
God sent lions to kill some foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 585,358+
Sleeping Assyrian soldiers 2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 770,358+
Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 770,359+
God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,270,359+
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,270,360+
The Lord smote the Ethiopians. 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,270,360+
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,270,361+
Ezekiel’s wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,270,362+
Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,270,364+
Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 2,270,365+

another couple of million. If AiG are right - and they are never, can never be wrong as we know - He killed at least three quarters of a billion in The Flood, so what’s a few of million more? And He’s going to kill billions in Revelation time. And He gets to burn them alive forever after killing them! Bliss.

Satan has killed 10. Not 10 billion. Just 10. And they were on God’s orders.

And that’s the Bible Truth.

Not that God is competent Love as revealed in Jesus.

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Have a look at Daniel 7. There is florid imagery there that is straight away explained to be metaphorical. It’s not actually about four beasts and horns and so forth, it’s about four kings. Because actually Daniel is not intended to be a textbook of cryptozoology. Likewise Genesis is not intended to be a textbook of palaeontology.

Which, of course, doesn’t mean that any of it’s not true. It’s true apocalyptic. Not prophecy of course, as it was all written after the event by some Maccabean genius under the true pseudonym Daniel, apart from the actual true failed prophecy. Which is why it’s not included in the Nevi’im. The Revelation apocalyptic is an update of it. And Genesis contains two true creation myths and many other true stories. Like Fargo.

…and if you read the Bible you’d know that there’s no “s” in Revelation.

@Christy — sorry, I’ll be in the penalty box. Two minutes for high sticking.


@GodsDisciples, thank you for your comment.

Sadly. it seems that many Christians believe that Genesis 1 is God’s only Creation story. John 1:1 is also God’s Creation story and the gospels take precedent over the OT.

God’s Word is not the Bible. God’s Word is Jesus Christ. the Logos, Savior and Second Person of the Trinity.

John 1:1-3 (NIV2011)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
John 1:14 (NIV2011)
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

God’s Word is True God the Father used God the Son/Logos to create the universe and shape biological life using the Big Bang and evolution, which God created through the Logos, Jesus Christ.

Please stop trying to make the Word, the Logos, God fit into the OT/Bible, rather than make the Bible conform to God as we know Him through Jesus Christ.

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Could you define “kind”? If “species” is what is meant, then the genus Otodus and the Argopecten gibbus species group form obvious counterexamples. If a higher level is meant, then what are Myllokumingia, placoderms, stem tetrapods, gorgonopsids, and rostroconchs, if they aren’t transitional?

Also, given that most fossils in well-preserved deposits are transitional, no, you can’t find a “single” one, you can find millions of them. I have tens of thousands of them in the room I am sitting in right now.


It’s because people within the yecist movement don’t understand what a transitional fossil is. They still think there is supposed to be some half human half chimpanzee or half fish half goat capricorn-ish creature.

I’ll eventually get them cornered into something like “‘so you agree tigers and lions are both adaptations of an earlier partner like creature Noah brought on a ark and so I ask was that the transitional creature for them then? But they just embark on a side mission and try to redefine terms.


What are they? What “serious problems” should I be have (sic) ‘with being a Christian and believe (sic) in God’s Word while believing in Evolution’?

Do you believe in good English? Good grammar? In having an educated, well trained and organized mind? Do you believe in respecting your elders?

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Perhaps one of the more difficult hurdles to get over is helping people understand what science is and how it works. Anyone who dismisses something because it is a theory within science has seriously failed to understand what the purpose of science is. Theories are everything in science. The whole purpose of science is to construct theories. The scientific method is used to test hypotheses which then lead to tentative conclusions. Groups of tentative conclusions make up an overarching theory.

Of course, @GodsDisciples and other creationists accept scientific theories as being true. They probably accept that bacteria and viruses cause disease, even though it is based on Germ theory. They probably accept the existence of atoms, even though the science is based on Atom theory. Gravity? Also a theory.


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