Evolution Is Not A Science


(James Hiddle) #1

Continuing the discussion from When should you introduce your child to evolution?:

I probably approached this in the wrong way but I have to disagree with this POV. I can’t see how evolution isn’t science. It’s about as science as you can get. It’s taught as a science so if it’s not science then what is it?

I’m not asking for my sake but out of curiosity.


(Martin Mayberry) #2

I firmly believe if it were science and true,would would be able to see it in your everyday life. You do know that they say Birds come from reptiles right? Ok if you look up alligator reproduction you will see that an alligator has a penis.However if you look at chicken reproduction you will see that chickens do NOT have a penis. They have Gonads.Now Evolutionist keep telling us that chickens came from reptiles and science says so! But how did the chicken get the gonads and loose his penis?{this is NOT meant to be nasty} just science reality! It is my firm understanding that if chickens and reptiles were that close in family they certainly would have a very similar reproductive system! would they not? They simply said reptiles and birds look the same or were the same family because the chickens have “scales” on their legs an both lay eggs!I had to look this up on different websites on my own because evolution web sites will NOT tell me what I have just told you!{the DIFFERENCE between the bird and reptile}Please check this out and let me see what you find out and let me know? that is why I say evolution does NOT represent science!


(George Brooks) #3

Oh my goodness! Martin! Pull yourself together.

Alligators are not dinosaurs.

Birds diverged from a specific kind of dinosaurs… not from something that existed on the far side of the entire Reptilian universe…

George


(Martin Mayberry) #4

so what do you say! Is what I was talking about science or was it not? and another question to ask is this if evolutionist rally in FACT did find a discrepancy,would they be willing to admit it? My thinking is, probably NOT!


(Martin Mayberry) #5

they said birds came from reptiles because they found a fossil of a bird and reptile combined!


(George Brooks) #6

Martin, the only reason so many people discuss Evolution as though it were true is because VERY BASIC SCIENCE, and VERY EXOTIC SCIENCE say the Universe is billions and billions of years old.

Until that changes … Evolution is just the frosting on the cake…

George


(Martin Mayberry) #7

what did alligators come from?


(Martin Mayberry) #8

How ever the earth can be billions of years old then from what did dinosaurs evolve from?


(Martin Mayberry) #9

questions of this nature MUST indeed be asked in order to get to the facts.


(George Brooks) #10

Again… REPTILE is too GENERAL.

You have to look at the KIND of Reptile … and then the KIND of Dinosaur.

Birds are derived from a kind of Dinosaur.
Dinosaurs are derived from a kind of Reptile.

Alligators come from a completely different branch of the tree.

George


(Martin Mayberry) #11

If we were talking about cakes that would be fine but we are indeed talking about origins!


(George Brooks) #12

Martin, You are asking questions that any google could answer.

Hey, I’ve done my share … someone else can take a turn holding his hand…


(Martin Mayberry) #13

I do however note crocodiles on there,do they reproduce like alligators and they are indeed very close?


(Martin Mayberry) #14

Thank you George Brooks,I was simply replying as to why evolution is not science. If it was indeed science then the answer would be very simple indeed,but it is not!


(Martin Mayberry) #15

Usually that is indeed the response I get when the answer is unknown.


(George Brooks) #16

Martin, Do you recognize this beast? It’s called a Dimetrodon!

Some dinosaur, right? Wrong.

“Dimetrodon is often mistaken for a dinosaur or as a contemporary of dinosaurs in popular culture, but it went extinct some 40 million years before the first appearance of dinosaurs.”

40 million years is more than halfway back from Humans to the T-Rex!

40 million years ago is the time called the Lutetian (41.3–47.8 million years ago).
It was during this phase that animals we would know began to appear: " Early forms of many … modern mammalian orders appeared, including bats, proboscidians (elephants), primates, rodents and marsupials."


(Martin Mayberry) #17

Ok thanx that is good


(Martin Mayberry) #18

How ever you will thin this a silly question but how did it get named and when,when no one was back at that time to name it? I’m being serious not argumentative.Maybe you an shed some light on it?


(George Brooks) #19

Martin,

If you read about the history of biology, scientists assign names to creatures that reference key traits that distinguish the animal from near relatives.

Here’s the BIG picture about the Evolution of life onto dry land:

FIRST - THE TETRAPODS - 4 Limbed creatures with backbones.
Tetrapods evolved from the lobe-finned fishes around 390 million years ago. (Coelacanths and Lungfish (like Salamanderfish).

The first branch of Tetrapods were Anam-niotes:
Fishes & Amphibians (eg., Frogs). Eggs must be laid in water.

Then there were the Amniotes:
Characterized by having an egg equipped with an amnios, an adaptation to lay eggs on land. These were the first Reptiles.

There were four types of Amniote skull, classified by the number and location of their fenestra. These are:

[1] Anapsida –
no openings in the skull. Some turtles are examples of Anapsids.

[2] Synapsida –
one low opening (beneath the postorbital and squamosal bones). The dinosaur-LIKE creature with a giant sail was the Dimetrodon. Synapsida are easily separated from other amniotes by having a temporal fenestra, an opening low in the skull roof behind each eye, leaving a bony arch beneath each; this accounts for their name. Synapsids were considered to be the reptilian lineage that led to mammals.

[3] Diapsida –
two openings. The diapsids are extremely diverse, and include all
3a. lizards,
3b. snakes,
3c. tuatara, (Only surviving types of lizard-like creatures are on New Zealand).
3d. birds and
3e. non-avian dinosaurs (including the Archosaurs, which included 3 groups: the Crocodyl-omorphs, the Pterosaurs (flying reptiles), and the Dinosaurs.)

[4] Euryapsida –
one high opening (above the postorbital and squamosal bones); euryapsids actually evolved from a diapsid configuration, losing their lower temporal fenestra. This interesting lineage is best represented by two famous marine reptiles - - Ichthyosaurs and Plesiosaurs plus some turtle like lineages.

Within the Synapsida were Pelycosaur,
like the sail-backed Dimetrodon.

**From the Pelycosaurs, the Therapsids emerged - **
in the Middle Permian, about 265 million years ago, and became the dominant land vertebrates. These more resourceful group, the Therapsids, were a diverse group of fanged, ugly animals that look like a cross between rats and lizards.

From these came the mammals.
1) Monotremes (Egg-laying mammals like the Platypus);
2) The Viviparous, giving birth to live young.

2a) Marsupials (mammals with pouches);
2b) Placentals
"True placental mammals … arose from at least the Middle Jurassic period, about 170 MYA). These early Eutherians were small, nocturnal insect eaters, with adaptations for life in trees. True placentals probably originated in the Late Cretaceous around 90 MYA, but the earliest undisputed fossils are from the early Paleocene, 66 MYA, following the disappearance of the dinosaurs. Modern members of the placental orders originated in the Paleogene around 66 to 23 MYA, following the extinction of the dinosaurs.

Within the Placentals,
there was the smaller sized “Tree Shrew” like animals,
and a group called
Primato-morpha… the start of the monkey-like creatures.

Branching off from the Primato-morpha were the
Colugos (gliding primates).
And the other branch eventually emerged as
the Primates.

Primates included
the Lemurs,
the true Monkeys (old world and new world),
the Gibbons,
the Great Apes (Chimps & Gorillas),
and finally Hominids.

There are lots of other kinds of animals that this listing glosses over … this outline is meant simply to quickly present the major branches within Tetrapods… and how we eventually ended up with mammals… then primate mammals… and finally the hominids of the primate mammals.

George


(Martin Mayberry) #20

However if you really check it out a lot of those will be like the chicken and the alligator I have mentioned above-"Graphs and list “smooth over a lot of differences” in the animals. The reason I picked Chickens and alligators when I looked up reproduction is because people always say that alligator taste just like chicken,so wanted to see if when I eat chicken I was actually eating a past alligator. i did NOT want to be so I looked up the differences between them an scientifically their is a A LOT