That’s good, because you are unable to realize that you and your tribe are in a rut so deep you cannot see out of it and that it blinds you to the rest of the wonderful reality that God has created and the remarkable processes he used. That you apparently still want to believe in the magic flood that can generate girdled rocks in one place on earth is your blinkered and foolish prerogative, detrimental to the Gospel, repellent to those “in the valley of decision” and dishonoring to God.1
Remarkably, Augustine, nearly two millennia ago, has you and yours nailed:
1 Don’t forget the Barna results, cited here and here.
Which is why so many YECist university students abandon the faith: they’re just following what they were taught.
And meanwhile atheist and agnostic students studying evolution conclude that there is a Designer and many end up becoming Christians.
I don’t know to whom that was really addressed, @knor or myself, but as usual, you are mistaken that the account imposes a modern scientific view and 24-hour days.
And again you ignore the magic that you want so-called ‘Flood geology’ to perform.
I lost track of which post a reference to tree rings may have been in … but somewhere I recall you suggested that tree rings could not be trusted because they might have multiple rings per year. If you read the short response here, you’ll see that the slight problems tree rings have actually go the wrong way for young-earthers, and are easily corrected for by cross-calibrating them with other independent sources.
Getting this stuff right (and understanding scriptures rightly) is important to all of us Christians here. It’s why we care so much about it all. We believe that Christianity should be about truth and illumination. Not lies, distortion, and dishonoring the scriptural testimonies by distorting to make them teach what they don’t teach. We’re glad you’re here, where all of this stuff you’ve been immersed in can be exposed and brought out into the light for examination.
Except it doesn’t if you actually understand the scriptures.
In fact the Old Testament isn’t even necessary to “make sense of why Jesus became incarnate as a man” – most people will admit that they are broken, and broken people need a Savior.
Plain common sense when reading ancient literature in translation is pretty much guaranteed to get it wrong. Believing that it works requires assuming that the scriptures were meant to be read in English from a modern worldview and weren’t actually written for the people at the times they were set down in ink.
Not true – that actually comes from a misunderstanding of what scripture is, namely treating it as a philosophical treatise where the main point fails if some former point is elided. Jesus is relevant because people are broken.
And in fact when doing evangelism on a university campus, people who quoted the Old Testament got few listeners while those who led people to see that they are broken got not just more listeners but actual commitments.
And an extremely important aspect of this is that intelligent people in the world recognize when Christians are engaging in all this lying.
And a lot of people recognize this, too.
And that.
For some reason YECists manage to talk about the need to spread the Gospel but seem to manage to remain oblivious to the fact that non-Christians are quite good at seeing the lying, the distortion of the Gospel, and the inconsistency that puts a certain view of Genesis above Jesus. It is not attractive.
Once again I see that YEC cannot help but add to the text.
Those other sources include multiple tree cores from the same forest, more from surrounding forests, and others from forests a thousand or more kilometers away. We looked at such cores in botany class and managed to get them aligned using sequences of rings that were plain in most of the cores, and then cross-checked against snowfall and drought records obtained from other sources.
Dear Tim, my understanding is that there was a global flood that covered all the mountains of the planet, in the days of Noah. That global flood lasted for about a year and resulted in the laying down of sedimentary strata all over the planet including Antarctica and under the Earth’s ocean at this present time. It seems to me to be quite plausible that because of the massive geological upheaval and volcanism exposing molten rock to the surface of the crust during the global flood the Earth’s oceans were considerably warmer than they are today, causing greater evaporation and as a consequence greater volumes of precipitation of ice and snow on the planet that would have been shrouded in cloud and consequently reflecting solar radiation from reaching the surface thereby causing a single ice age directly after the flood. I have not seen any convincing evidence for multiple ice ages and I have not heard of any convincing scenarios that would have caused those ice ages to start and stop. similarly, I have not heard of any convincing evidence to validate the existence of Milankovitch cycles,
and from my understanding of the Antarctica and Greenland ice cores it would appear that Milankovitch cycles do not in fact exist… If you a priori assume old age of ice cores then old age conclusions are guaranteed. Much of the ice core strata are sub-annual and cannot honestly be regarded as an annual chronology per layer.
I’m sorry but I do not have the time to go into in depth research of the discrete areas you have listed in the U.S. in your post, but the same principal applies if the worldview through which you view the evidence is ‘deep time’ then it should be of no surprise to anyone that your conclusions and perhaps confirmation bias will result in the reality of ‘deep time’ being proved in your mind. I can view the exact same evidence through the lens of a straightforward reading of the Bible as written and using rigorous science come to a very different conclusion. Thus it is our worldviews that distinguishes interpretations of data.
Like you, I believed in ‘deep time’ of long ages and evolution for many years, there were many things that just didn’t sit right with me or make sense regarding evolution and its necessary corollary ‘deep time’.
I am grateful to the very good people all over the world who despite the attacks from the materialists, the secular academics, and ambivalence from compromising Churches, endeavour to uphold the truth of the Bible from the very first verse.
Dear Terry, that’s fine by me, please checkout every post that I have made, they are only under this topic now, and only go back a couple of days so it won’t be too arduous a task to check.
> James Barr, then Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University, wrote in 1984: > > ‘ … probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1–11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that: … the figures contained in the Genesis genealogies provided by simple addition a chronology from the beginning of the world up to later stages in the biblical story.’
Not a chance; why would I waste my time reading copy and paste CMI stuff, especially since you can’t or won;t answer my question:
You haven’t added any insight, biblical or otherwise, that makes Jesus more relevant than he was, is, or ever will be. I remain unimpressed by “your creed” and “your other gospel”
Well, benthic foraminiferal d-O18 values are one of the best records of them, and they agree extremely well with both predictions from physics calculations of how the Earth should be moving, and with the independents temperature data from ice cores. And having global d-O18 values stabilize requires time. Having global planktonic foraminiferal stratigraphic ranges requires time for each species to spread across the globe, and then disappear, and then the next species appears, spreads, and disappears. And that spreading takes place almost instantaneously, as far as most geological records are concerned.
Sedimentary layers clearly show “short” up-and-down cycles in sea level on some sort of timescale, based solely on fauna, sediment type, and rock size.
Given that, why would there be identifiable global up-and-down cycles in stable isotope ratios?
People who accept an evolutionary creation also affirm this.
ICR is famous for recycling old material and pretending they are being current. Look at their citations. They are old. They actually have no idea what we believe or what we talk about around here. AIG does the same. They have sub-par journalistic standards.
Yeah, the physics of rapidly-moving tectonic plates yields a situation where the entire crust of the planet would be enough “warmer” that it would turn to plasma.
Which no one does.
In order to “uphold the truth of the Bible from the very first verse” it is necessary to honor the context, including language, literary genre, and worldview. I have yet to encounter a YECist who pays more than lip service to those.
(James Barr quote)
Yeah, as I said, I don’t know what he’s counting as “world class universities”, but my actual Hebrew professors as well as a rabbi I knew in grad school disagreed. For that matter, most of the Old Testament professors disagreed.