Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom

Well said Mark.

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Thank you…yes I watched the video.
I hear your passion and concern and truly there are two sides to the dilemma.

There is always room for earnest questions. Can you clarify them? I am not of the training of the NIH and CDC, but some here have very good credentials, and I can do what I can. Thank you.

Welcome to the forum. I would echo Randy’s question as to what questions do you have about the vaccine that prevent you from taking it?

I have seen informal polls taken where 99% of doctors took the vaccine. Personally, I think it is part of God’s provision. When you look at hospitalizations in areas where the vaccinated at roughly 50/50, you see 90% of the hospital admissions in the 50% that are unvaccinated, and almost all the people in the ICU and on ventilators are in the unvaccinated group. The best way to help the vulnerable, the children who are too young to be vaccinated, and immunocompromised is to get vaccinated so you do not cause suffering on their part.

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Exactly–and it’s much more effective, as with the flu shot, if we have herd immunity. Some of those who have poorer immune systems likely mount less of a defense from the shot, and so we need to immunize the group around them to protect them from exposure. That is why CDC and NIH have to emphasize group responsibility rather than personal freedom. It’s not that they are trying to be authoritarian. As a physician, I’d rather not bug anyone who doesn’t want to, to wear a mask or get a shot. However, many will die if we don’t all follow the logical rules of protection. Thanks.

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Hey there! It wouldn’t give me access to the video or article with it (if there was one–I don’t know).

Regarding what appears to be the topic of the video, I will say this–I believe firmly that many people take freedom for granted. We live in a country and a time when freedom has been around for a while. Many people, I think, have forgotten what real oppression, what real tyranny, looks like.

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The video is now on YouTube and you can watch it now: Dying in the name of vaccine freedom

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thank you! I could not access it, either. I guess I wonder–would this help my friends rethink their position, or not? They are so afraid, that it seems that telling them the cold truth might turn them off. I feel burdened.

Hi nosred,

Welcome to the forum! I am glad that you are here to ask sincere questions and listen carefully. Some day you will post about something you know well, and you’ll be able to help the rest of us.

Would you listen to a podiatrist about a liver cancer treatment, or would you be better off listening to an oncologist?

The reason I ask is this: There is a specialization of medicine called epidemiology that studies the transmission and prevention of diseases like Covid-19. Not every doctor who has spoken about Covid vaccines is well qualified. My advice is that you listen to the epidemiologists.

Best,
Chris Falter

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Thank you Chris…great questions. Who are we listening to? First and foremost, I listening to the Holy Spirit and what He says. Up to this point in time He has encouraged me to not get vaccinated and not walk in fear. I trust His guidance more than I trust humans.

How? If it’s just feeling, feelings are notoriously fickle and variable and not to be trusted. God wants us to use our heads and think righteously.
 

How is getting a vaccine walking in fear? They are not at all necessarily related. Seatbelts and carseats for kids are analogous – using them certainly does not mean you are living in fear, and not using them makes no one more noble or ‘more free’.

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My college roommate served the Lord as a missionary in Papua New Guinea. He said he heard the Holy Spirit instruct Him not to trust man’s medicine by taking hydroxychloroquine for malaria prophylaxis, so he didn’t.

He got malaria. But he said he kept hearing the Lord instruct Him not to trust man’s medicine.

Just hours before he passed away, he said he heard differently; the Lord was instructing him that the prudent man sees danger and turns away, so he should take hydroxychloroquine. He asked for the medicine. But it was too late.

I got this account from his brother. Decades later, I and many, many others still mourn his death.

Sincerely,
Chris

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Hmm…

Perhaps that final one was actually the Lord and every other time before then was Satan deceiving him so that one fewer worker for the harvest would be in the world.

Or maybe he wasn’t hearing the Lord instruct him at all. Hard to say. But I believe that the first option is entirely possible.

My best friend came over yesterday and he said an aunt and three cousins of his died in Mexico due to Covid. He also said he isn’t vaccinated. He said a few of them were vaccinated and still died. None of them were very healthy to begin with but he said, “I just don’t believe in what they say about the vaccines.” I can’t corroborate any of his story or if he is mistaken about some details but how you do use logic and reason in this case for someone who doesn’t trust authority, doesn’t trust the government (Mexican or American) and who had four relatives die from it? I recommended getting it but without any sort of shame involved.

I talked with another friend yesterday at the gym and he said “I been all over the place unmasked in large crowds and never got it. They ain’t jabbing me. I been in a motorcycle accident and survived. If it’s my time it’s my time.”

This same person also espoused the gamblers fallacy in conversation and told me about his doubling up strategy on the roulette wheel. I tried to explain to him that at best he’s trying to break even and the roulette wheel has no memory and every new spin can be seen as a new and isolated event in the universe with a 38-1 probability of it landing on any part of the wheel. “No, the law of averages ahead to work out. If you see black 10x in a row you bet red.” I guess the guy who started this on the 3rd black had to lose 7 more times before he broke even

For people that don’t understand logic and probability, the big picture and statistics, how do you actually dialogue with them?

Also, outside of some people on social media and the internet (here), besides my school, I really don’t hear any people talking or caring about Covid anymore. Most I talk to don’t want the masks in school and are taking them off every chance they get. I get the impression for most it’s just show now when they comply. These colleagues are vaccinated though.

Not to be political at all but Trump was at a rally of his in Alabama a week or so ago and suggested to his crowd that they vaccinate. They booed him!

Outside mandatory vaccines by most private businesses and jobs, these holdouts may never get vaccinated.

This was just posted by our Health System. I found it helpful. Dr. Sullivan is an infectious disease doctor, and I found his concise answers to be humble and clear

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Yes, Vinnie, there seems to be a lot denial here also. Many are stricken but few are willing to do anything. Everyone is tired. Our positivity rate in a testing clinic I’ve been working at is about 25%. I fear we have all been changed for the worse by this, and pray our hard hearts soften.

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The medical profession has been so badly used by this pandemic. I would be before angry in your shoes.

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Well that depends if you might have a negative reaction to the vaccination. [edited by moderator] A guy in Washington wouldn’t take the vaccination because he was worried about a negative reaction with his liver. He was on the list for liver transplant and was then taken off because he wasn’t vaccinated. Seems pretty dictatorial to me.

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I suspect the doctors were worried because he wasn’t following medical advice; i.e., take the vaccine. If no to the vaccine, why not no to other medical advice given to to improve the chances that the liver transplant won’t be rejected and that the transplant patient survives (the chances btw would be drastically less if he caught Covid-19 in an unvaccinated state shortly after the operation). Better to give the transplant to someone who is following medical advice.

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