Dying in the Name of Vaccine Freedom

This is interesting, for those who are patriotically vaccine resisters:

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If the smoker had quit or tried to quit (you do remember that it is an addiction?) and the antivaxxer with COVID both needed lung transplants, my judgementalism might choose the smoker.

So a 3.4 mil bil, dropped to 900k for “hospital discount” I don’t want to get started on health insurance…

But they ended up with a 10k bill. So I don’t really feel bad for the insurance company that footed that 900k bill. I’m more than certain they will get govt bailouts and will be fine if not find some way to make more money from this. The tax payers are paying for this, which will still be less than 1 trillion. Even if there were 9 mil medical bill of 100k examples like this, that is still covered by 1 trillion. But not all of that is taxpayer, maybe half (no clue). Again, I have no pitty for the health insurance. Sure premiums will go up, they are already stupid high, and socialized healthcare will be next so again, the tax payers pay it, through inflation too.

It sucks to lose 10k, but for the life of a loved one, that isn’t bad. And the few thousands in stimulus helps pay for that. I wouldn’t call that an “iceberg” by any means.

Part of the iceberg is long COVID.

Fair enough, you get an opinion too. I would call it a coin flip still. I wouldn’t be upset if I gt outvoted, I see your point of view.

Choices have consequences. It is great they chose to quit, but, they made bad decisions and it happened to have a consequence. Like the thief on the cross who said, “we did bad things, we deserve to be here, that man did nothing”. He probably didn’t want to die, but, he realized as a responsible and mature adult, actions have consequences and was not happy about them, but “took them like a man”.

I am certainly not referring to judging them, or condemning them. They are not lesser of a person, and people make mistakes. We shouldn’t have a negative bias against them based on their past. Like those who chose bad health life choices. They are still valued and loved by God and myself. But when weighing fairness, I think past choices should be considered.

If you want to paint me out to be a bad (uncompassionate) person, and apparently you do…

I volunteer as a prison (or did before covid) and I love bring light and hope to the inmates there! They are looked down on society, and told they are worthless and only worthy of a number and a problem. I tell them they are loved and valued by God! I am no better than them, it is just the sins they committed were illegal, or they got caught. I love to show them their value and purpose and I don’t try to coach them to be better when they get out, but rather tell them they can be a part of God’s kingdom now, in prison. There are so many people they can reach and spread the love of God to so many who are in despair and are hurting. Many are there because they weren’t raised right, or at all by parents. I don’t deserve the family I had, or the blessings God gave me, I am not better than any of them. But God did bless me with those things and it is my job to use those blessings to bless them and praise Him for it! So that they may see His love and praise Him too!

So please don’t accuse me of thinking lesser of a person who smokes.

To clarify, not saying, to a smoker, they are stupid and deserve to die. Not at all. Mistakes were made, I am no better than them. But if choices need to be made, their past would be weighed in my decision making of finite resources. That’s just reality.

Oh, I see. I agree there is an iceberg in covid that we have only seen the tip of. But I still think a MUCH larger iceberg is the shutdowns and mandates.

Maybe you haven’t seen this:

I’m in favor of speed limits.

I have and? I don’t think it is or really should be a religious thing. I see it as a potential bill of rights violation. And logically I see the vaccine as not needed for those with natural antibodies.

I do want to read that article on GW though and smallpox. I heard something like that the other day and wanted to read up on that, so thanks.

You get an opinion, too, but if it impacts others’ freedom from disease, it is not a bill of rights issue, is it.

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Who makes speed limits? Governors or congress?
But, you really like to hit my hot topics that are way off topic don’t you lol.

The autobahn has no speed limit, but a common sense approach.

Speeding doesn’t = unsafe driving. Unsafe driving = unsafe driving.

It would be safer for me to drive 30 over a 50mph speed limit, but have 5 times the space between cars than for you to drive 45mph and ride the tail.

I.e if there is no traffic, there shouldn’t be a speed limit. You shouldn’t get fined just because of speed. It should be if you were unsafe for the conditions. Driving the speed limit can be way to fast during certain conditions.

Distracted drivers are WAY more dangerous than someone going faster than a posted sign.

But there should not be federal mandates for it. If it is a problem, tell congress and have them make a law about it. So the local jurisdictions can do what they see as safe. Every area is different and what is safe for some might not be safe for others.

There also isn’t a bill of rights saying you have the right to drive as fast as you want. A speed limit doesn’t violate that.

But if my doc says the vaccine is unwise for me to get. Can the govt say I need to get it anyway?

The gov’t would be saying no such thing.

Abortion effects the life of the unborn, but that seems to be ok to not be allowed to mandate against…

They seem to be doing just that. They are forcing my job to require it, and my doc says I don’t need it.

You seem to have a taste for red herring. :slightly_smiling_face: Or is it straw men. The latter is harder to chew, I should think.

I don’t know pot…I’m feel like I am reply to a excerpt out of context from you on a different topic. I am not even sure how to address them. I am just putting my opinions of those topics. We are so far branched out of some of these…the straw man is about 5 generation lol It’s hard not to make a straw man out of a 5th generation straw man.

There is a difference between a doc saying “You don’t need it” and having a legitimate medical reason. Docs can be conspiracists, too, you know. (I would not trust Rand Paul’s medical opinion on much besides a prescription for glasses.)

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"That’s because smallpox was endemic in England, meaning that a high percentage of British troops had already contracted the disease as children and now carried lifelong immunity. "

Washington seemed to believe that the British didn’t need to vaccine (or I should say innoculate by way of pus in an open wound lol)…because of natural immunity that the colonist didn’t have. Interesting… I wonder if he asked his soldiers who had already got smallpox to get the vaccine. I wonder if he got the vaccine since he didn’t need it.

" I have therefore determined, not only to innoculate all the Troops now here, that have not had it, but shall order Docr. Shippen to innoculate the Recruits as fast as they come in to Philadelphia… First, medical personnel had to examine each individual to determine if they had contracted the disease in the past…"

Seems Washington didn’t force innoculate those who already had it.

None of that is to the point, that point being legitimate authority.

maybe we should vet docs better? A governmental board to oversee the appointing of MD degrees? Or say the govt can’t go against your doc’s advise…unless they are a conspiracy theorist? Tongue firmly in cheek lol lest you accuse me of a straw man.

I’m pretty sure there is no scientific evidence supporting this. The very rare instances of deaths because of the COVID vaccine were due to blood clots, never pneumonia. Most serious reactions to COVID vaccines are allergic reactions, the symptoms of which are not the same at all as COVID. You don’t think doctors can tell the difference between vaccine side effects and COVID infections, after the billions of vaccine doses that have been observed and the hundreds of millions of COVID infections that have been observed?

Okay, but you realize that coronaviruses and influenza viruses are not the same and there is no reason to expect that the immunity works the same way. We have actual data an coronavirus antibodies in people in this pandemic, we have no need to extrapolate from a few cases from a hundred years ago and a different disease. That isn’t how science works. There is no universal law of antibodies. Different pathogens affect the human immune system in different ways.

That is not recommended by the scientists whose job it is to study the data and make recommendations. So no, don’t agree.

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/safety-communications/antibody-testing-not-currently-recommended-assess-immunity-after-covid-19-vaccination-fda-safety

They don’t approve things because they might be good. They have to see data that it would be beneficial. They were not convinced yet that there were enough demonstrated benefits for the general population to recommend it. It wasn’t because it was too risky.

I don’t think you are interpreting these studies correctly, because I haven’t heard any such thing from anyone. Please post. From what I’ve read antibodies from the original COVID variant are not protecting people from Delta.

42.4% of Americans are obese. It’s not this rare risk factor. And I get ads for products every day telling me I probably need to lose weight, even though I don’t, so where do you live that the media isn’t constantly telling people not to be fat? Or is it just women who feel that constant pressure?

People have had plenty of access to truth. They choose to listen to liars and charlatans. The problem is not that the truth isn’t out there.

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