Boo-hooing? You find no reason behind my concerns and questions?
Romans 9 specifically says it is not appropriate for you to do so ā¦
Amazingly, you have managed to duck the question for 2 more posts. What is your response to Paul in Romans 9?
[Typos: I meant Romans 9!]
I will question God and the World around me like basically every believer has ever. I and all my fellow Humans (besides you it seems) sees my questioning as reasonable. It is my right as I am intimately involved in this unsatisfactory World.
As far as Romans 9, my Human reasoning, compassion, mercy and sense of justice causes me to stand by my questioning. It becomes difficult to love and want to worship a God who would let a child be born deaf and blind, or die from cancer without knowing God personally, without having any sort of Godly comfort, just so God can be glorified. Just because we are āpotterās clayā. Well I must say, I have met many people who are not simply clay. They are thinking, feeling, loving, fearing people that suffer much and deserve to be happy and comforted. If you were using Romans 9 to try and justify Godās ways to a questioning Human Being, then you have failed.
If I had to guess your motives for posting on my threads, it would be that you disbelieve yourself and want me to see God as you do. Cruel and unworthy of worship and love.
Your references to Godās creation as a mess is really a far better diagnostic than your reaction to Paulās
Romans 9; I find most everyone rejects Romans 9 (but only those who already consider figurative
interpretation of the Bible as crucial and valid reject Romans 9 in a way consistent with their faith).
I do not consider your stance to be the stance of believers like Young Earth Creationists. Nor like the
believers of Intelligent Design.
Who, then, are the ones most likely to complain about the world being left in a terrible mess
by God?
How can a Christian reject any part of the Bible and keep their faith? I reject none of it, I simply havenāt grown to understand it properly yet. This is why I come across as at odds with God. Though you seem bent on simply labelling me an atheist and being done with it.
@Burning_to_Know Burning
There arenāt a lot of Christians that I know that call themselves miso-theists. In fact, I can easily say you are the first one Iāve ever met.
Tell us what part of the Bible are you most devoted to. That would be edifying.
I donāt think I can call myself a Christian. I suppose the closest thing I come to is how a Devil would feel. I believe, I disagree, I see no other way and so I tremble.
What part am I most devoted to? The Son, Jesus Christ. His flawless character. His compassion. His sermon on the mount. His action. His sacrifice. His forgiveness.
How could I not love such a person? Though He seems a radically different person to the Father. Who I feel is tyrannical. Without Christ, I would be happy to be called a misotheist. For I truly would despise God.
As Iāve stated though, if Jesus IS God, then I am not done in my journey yet. There must be a way to understand and come to peace with it.
1 Like
How odd, then, that you find yourself on a website of MOSTLY Christians, disputing whether the Christian God created the Cosmos in 6 days ā¦ or at least Earth ā¦ vs. taking millions and billions of years to create Earth and its life as we know it.
Do you think a non-Christian has something material to contribute to this discussion ?
I am still a theist. I still accept the reality of the Judeo-Christian God. I am simply at odds with parts of it which I am attempting to gain a better understanding of. Iām not here to debate with you or anyone else. I am here to ask questions and hopefully receive enlightening responses to help achieve my goal. My goal being to better understand God to a point where I can submit to and truly love Him instead of rebel and dislike Him. Does rebellion and disliking Godās ways make me a Christian? I would say no. You simply trying to label me and wave me off once you have your label is not helping me much. If my questions were of the type I could trust my local āpastorā to answer then I wouldnāt be on this forum. I require greater intellect.
@Burning_to_Know, I donāt see that there is any point in accepting the reality of the Judeo-Christian God if you donāt believe in an afterlife.
Who said I didnāt? I believe in a future Resurrection of the dead. Can you please stop putting words in my mouth? What is it youāre after?
@Burning_to_Know, you said yourself that you donāt know about any Heaven (or some such words).
If you stopped being so mysterious about what your thoughts are, then people wouldnāt be prone to make erroneous conclusions.
If you believe in a bodily resurrection ā¦ that is STILL something ordinary people construe as āheavenā ā¦ so maybe when you make your statements, you could EXPLAIN them a little bit.
Favoritism? I highly doubt that. To be where I am now, it has taken a lot time and frustration to get there. Iāve leaned into God all that time and continue to because that was the only option I felt I had. And still do.
Doctors were sure Iād be dead or, at least, a vegetable. Much less replying to this post.
Believe me, I wish things would have turned out differently. But they are what they are. Iāve been angry at God many times for how things turned out. But I also try to be grateful for where I am, what I do have, and I believe God did that. So He gets the glory.
A favorite? No. I am just a person who is doing the best she can with the hand life has dealt her.
and oops I forgot to quote the previous thread. But I agree with what youāre saying. Hence why I wrote the reply.
Maybe he DID NOT fashion evolution. Maybe evolution is simply a construct of the human mind to deny that God created everything as He claims he did: āFor in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in themā Exodus 20:8-11.
You seem to believe that God is not loving, yet itās explicitly stated that he is:
āFor God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal lifeā John 3:16.
As for God being a tyrant, perhaps a complete reading of Genesis thru Malachi is in order to see just why people died.
In fact, right from the word go, GOD told Adam he would die if he disobeyed the command given to him. Adam CHOSE to disobey after Eve was deceived. People have been doing that ever since. Look at how God was merciful and waiting for people to change their behavior in sending the Israelites into Egypt for 400 years: Because the abhorrent sins of the Canaanites had not yet reached the place of non-return. Look at Godās demonstration to Moses when He hid him in the cleft of a rock and passed by him: " āThe LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulnessā.
The idea of God being a tyrant comes from those who do not WANT him in their lives and will find ANYTHING to vindicate their rebellion against Him.
God is love. Jesus is God. Look at the predictions about the messiah - about healing the deaf, the blind, the dumb and the lame. Who else has authority over the elements? Who else can walk on water? Who else can command demons to leave or otherwise obey him? WHo else has authority to forgive sins? WHo else has authority to raise the dead? Only God does. Jesus fully displayed all that authority, therefore Jesus is God in the sense of being part of the three who possess such authority. Jesus himself said that all authority under heaven has been given to him. No one else can make that claim. Jesus is Godā¦
You mean this command?
Genesis 2:
16 The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely;
17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.
When you read this literally Adam should have died on the day he ate of the fruit. But instead he lived how long? 930 years? Every time I have heard a preacher use this verse they all quickly add something to the effect of āwell on that day he started to dieā. The idea that it was spiritual death that was being mentioned doesnāt seem to get mentioned as that doesnāt fit with the āno death before the curseā belief.
This is one of many reasons, not including evolution btw, that I donāt take Genesis 1-11 as literal history.
1 Like
Sure, Bill.
You should not take as literal history the statement that there will be an offspring that will crush the serpents head either, after all thatās just a tale of two opponents. So there was no Adam and there wasnāt a male and female created in the beginning as Jesus said. Jesus wouldnāt know what he was talking about since he himself didnāt understand evolution so how could he know about the male and female being created by God in the beginning. After all, Jesus wasnāt there, now was he?
Oh, I have it on good authority that it really means ādying, you will dieā in the original Hebrew. Your mileage might vary.
Your authority is making things up, @Prode
If you mean the slow death of aging ā¦ then that was true even before anyone ate the fruit!
Not sure how this solves your problem. Could you help me understand?
āIn the day that you eat from it, you will surely die.ā
āIn the day that you eat from it, dying, you will die.ā
Sounds about the same to meā¦
1 Like