If I believe in God the creator and you say you believe in God the creator, why do you seem frustrated with me?
God is always smart and NEVER dumb!
If Biologos truly accepts that God helps evolution in its undirected state, as well as through the hard parts, then I am here simply to help them express that. But I am here also to challenge their popular acceptance of evolution as proposed in all its forms, since in general, their acceptance of evolution is a type of acceptance that bolsters the atheists’ claim that God is not necessary nor involved in the creation process. They usually treat evolution as a law of gravity, simply created by God, and not interfered with. They do not treat evolution as a process in which God had a discernible purpose. They do not generally explain what the purpose of evolution was, nor how that purpose is evident in the process. So it needs challenging.
And then, there is the defense of the science of the YEC, which even if not accepted carte blanche as a reason for denying macroevolution, still highlights a general need for consideration, respect, common purpose of honoring God, and can cause one to take a closer look at certain biological and geological facts and interpretations.
It’s notable that much of the opposition to Darwin came from scientists2 like Owen, as well as Professor Johann H. Blasius, director of the Ducal3 Natural History Museum of Braunschweig (Brunswick), Germany, …
As for good reasons Owen did not draw evolutionary conclusions, there are several. The well-known textbook Gray’s Anatomy states:
“As the recurrent nerve hooks around the subclavian artery or aorta, it gives off several cardiac filaments to the deep part of the cardiac plexus. As it ascends in the neck it gives off branches, more numerous on the left than on the right side, to the mucous membrane and muscular coat of the esophagus; branches to the mucous membrane and muscular fibers of the trachea; and some pharyngeal filaments to the Constrictor pharyngis inferior.”6
Dawkins considers only its main destination, the larynx. In reality, the nerve also has a role in supplying parts of the heart, windpipe muscles and mucous membranes, and the esophagus, which could explain its route.
If you believe in the long time idea ,it is hard to believe in Jesus!
We both believe in God the Creator … but while I accept the testimony of God’s Book of Nature, you think the Book of Nature is deceptive.
The last group of Christians who held you couldn’t believe Nature were the Victorians who seriously argued for a Flat Earth.
George Brooks
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Not for most people. For me, deep time is a manifestation of the glory and power of God. So many pages in the book of God’s works, each more awe-inspiring than the last. And besides, the new young earth creationism came from the Seventh Day Adventist prophet Ellen G. White, who claimed she witnessed in a vision the creation of the world.
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the age of the earth is no big deal to me old or young as a firm creationist! the earth is just like a chalkboard God could have erased many animals over time! But I still do not believe in evolution over time I believe God spoke and it happened.that is what the Bibles says To me to accept a hint of Darwinism is like accepting a hint of communism.or atheism I just can NOT it! I do NOT think evolution has been proven to be true,it just shouts real loud and drowns opposing voices out!
So, am I supposed to believe you just cannot believe God causes rain by allowing the Sun’s heat to evaporate ground water … and that the evaporated moisture gathers as clouds … and it rains?
Would this mean you are accepting a HINT of natural law? If Darwinism means “genetic change without God’s direction” … then don’t be a Darwinist.
Martin, what do you call people who think God exclusively used natural law to execute his genetic plan?
George
If the Bible says you must be Born again in order to see heaven do you doubt that as well? The Jewish people are Gods chosen people The Gospel has been handed down through them! NOT much we can do about it! When God does something through the Jewish people like sending his son Jesus in the Form of man You can doubt it and fight against it all you want too but you can NOT change it! The Church belongs TO JESUS and The Bible belongs to JESUS as his word! While i love science and i do love nature however in my view the Bible has precedence over nature! Just looking at nature no matter how beautiful it may be does NOT tell me how it got here.The Bible does tell me just that however! And I believe Gods word OVER mans! you may see things differently an that’s cool. I will tell you this,Man can mislead you through science and that is what I see as happening in the world! if people do NOT want to believe in God,I believe it is highly possible that Satan through man could push evolution and keep many people out of heaven! the Bible describes Satan as a ROARING lion seeking whom he may devour!{get that picture in your mind} Satan is NOT just the little red man with a pitch fork on the Underwood deviled ham can as a lot of people believe. Satan is a Liar who wants to take your soul to hell forever! You may ask,do i really believe this? You bet! NOW MORE THAN EVER!
I agree with you, evolution needs challenging and that is what I have been brought here for to challenge it in all of it’s LIES!!
I loved what you said about the laryngeal nerve! Evolutionist love to FORGET that it does indeed have a purpose! It is NOT random or haphazard in its construction! Why are Evolutionist {the ones who “claim to Know science” }the ones who know it least???
Nobody every said the laryngeal nerve doesn’t have a function. It does–it innervates the larynx. What is very goofy is its length.
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You are not convincing … because the Bible does not let you be convincing. There are huge sections of the Bible that does not allow a systematic, literal interpretation.
Do you believe in God’s fairness? Do you believe in human free will? I assume the answer is yes to both.
But if you LITERALLY READ Romans 9:13-23, you will see that God’s fairness is not from the HUMAN viewpoint … and that human freewill is not always free from the HUMAN viewpoint. Just read the texts below:
(God favors some, not others; is that fair?)
Rom 9:13-14 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
(God is the one Decides These Things)
Rom 15-16: For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
(The Pharaoh is Another Example)
Rom 9:17-18 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
(Can God’s Creations Criticize Their Creator?)
Rom 9:19-20 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
(It is the Creator’s Right to do whatever he wants with his Creations)
Rom 9:21-22 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
(As Long as it Demonstrates the Glory of the Creator)
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
There is no way to take this text LITERALLY … and still believe that God is being fair in human terms, or that God is allows human freewill.
And yet virtually all Evangelicals Christians explain this text away. They also refuse to take the words of Jesus literally that the Rich should give all their wealth to The Poor … and join a religious commune.
It’s just not LITERALLY TRUE to the great majority of Evangelicals - - probably including you, Martin…
George
This is an old discredited argument, a straw man, an irrelevant cannard, George. The few victorians who may have argued for a flat earth have nothing to do with this discussion. No creationist is saying that we cannot believe nature, and credible creationists are arguing that nature does not demonstrate evolution. You could as well say that the last group of evolutionists who were deluded, seriously advocated for eugenics and race based hierarchies.
No sir… I am not saying that it is religion’s fault regarding the existence of the Victorian Flat Earthers.
I am saying the Victorian Flat Earthers TWISTED AND ABUSED the reading of the Bible… just as you do.
There is nothing fictional about the Flat Earthers of the 1800’s. They existed… and they zealously defended
their LITERAL reading of the Bible… to God’s shame… and to the harm of their fellow Christians!
George
What is really goofy is the assumptions of evolutionists. The length is appropriate and useful to the fact that this nerve does much much more than just connect to the larynx, as my article showed, which means you must not have read the quote.
Yes the flat earthers twisted scripture, about 300 years after most people knew that the globe had been circumnavigated, and centuries more after most scientists and common people knew that the globe was round, not flat. On the other hand, I am not twisting scripture at all, nor abusing it. I am merely contesting and forcing evolutionary theorists to confront the facts. So there is no comparison.
And yet the Flat Earther’s had most convincing explanations for why the earth SEEMED spherical… They had an answer for everything … just like you do.
The similarity is your willingness to question all of natural science … in order to defend the literal interpretation of fantastic sections of the Bible.
Believing all of Earth’s life was created 5000 years ago in less than a week is just as fantastic as thinking the earth has 4 literal pillars or 4 literal corners.
George
While this may be interesting to you, it is a false argument. Just because there are literary devices on every page of the bible, which there likely are, does not mean that one particular phrase, or chapter, or group of chapters is a literary device. The fact that Jesus said one should despise or reject their parents (in the form of hyperbole) does not mean that we should not obey the commands of God. No one is denying literary devices in scripture, and no one is denying that there are paradoxes in scripture (such as predestination vs free will), and in the way God deals with us. However, this says absolutely nothing at all about the main issue we are discussing, microbes to man evolution, vs special creation by the spoken word of God.