Herd immunity is a myth. A vaccine does not afford immunity. All it does is to give the person an advantage in developing antibody ready to be used by the immune system before an infection. It does not stop infection.
Infection is the entry of a pathogen into the body. No vaccine can stop that. How well the person’s body fights the infection is not simply dependent on the available antibodies.
If a person is stress and has a perceived external danger, as for instance in modern life of losing their job or afraid their car is going to break down etc., etc., then their immune system will be declined to some extent depending on the level of fear. If the immune system is declined then not amount of antibodies is going to stop them from getting the disease, i.e., symptoms and being highly infectious to others.
You say no conspiracy. Well please tell me why NO doctor or medical researcher is telling the public about how the immune system can be declined. All the talk is about a strong or weak immune system, which is a long way from the truth.
Even more importantly why are they not telling the public how they can again bring their immune system to full capacity? Why are they all silent on this?
Some definitely are spreaders. The viral counts of some (most?) asymptomatic carriers are as high or even higher than patients with symptoms from what I have personally seen.
That’s better than no immunity, and its a big step above any treatments that have been found thus far.
Then why are cases of whooping cough, measles, mumps, and polio so exceedingly rare when they were very common before the introduction of vaccines for these communicable diseases? Why was there an outbreak of measles that killed 80+ children in Samoa which had a population with low vaccination rates?
There’s just a lot of unknowns here and I hope that they are doing concomitant animal studies that they skipped over. Do you have any more recent animals studies than these? We don’t know that the vaccine will prevent the ability to spread the virus. Note the one study where the monkey didn’t develop symptoms but still had high levels virus in its nasal passages ( it is hard to know if this is related to excess viral exposure)
The gain of function studies have shown that these SARS vaccines can generate hypersensitivity excaberating the disease pathology and to not be protective in the susceptible populations aged and as others are stating the obese 40% of US. It is even a concern that these T cell immune population could be made hypersensitive by the vaccine. As I have shown that one trial of 15000 vaccinated people with maybe only 5% exposure is not sufficient for establishing safety and efficacy. As much as we want a vaccine it needs extensive testing. Are you aware of additional animal testing for these vaccines particularly for viral challenge in progress while they are running these clinical trials.
The 80+ Samoan children got reported because the low vaccination rate… i.e., propaganda.
Have a look.
Whooping cough
An estimated 16.3 million people worldwide were infected in 2015
https://www.cdc.gov/dotw/whoopingcough/index.html
Since the 1980s, there has been an increase in the number of cases of whooping cough reported in the United States.
“Our other finding is that 10- to 14-year-olds who had been vaccinated were as susceptible to pertussis as kids who had never been vaccinated — suggesting that the vaccine’s effectiveness was not long-lasting,”
And it also says
“In 2012, there were 48,000Trusted Source reported cases of whooping cough in the United States, the highest rate since 1955.” Why is this. They are trying to put it down to non-vaxers but the evidence shows otherwise.”
Measles
https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/measles/globalmeaslesoutbreaks.htm
Measles is an issue worldwide . Provisional data from the World Health Organizationexternal icon (WHO) indicate that during 2019 there were more measles cases reported worldwide than in any year since 2006. More than 500,000 confirmed cases of measles were reported from more than 180 countries, many from large measles outbreaks. Case numbers in 2019 dwarfed the 353,236 confirmed measles cases reported to WHO in 2018. Measles case numbers are underreported so the numbers of confirmed cases may not reflect the full burden of measles cases in a country.
Mumps
There were 5,042 recorded cases of mumps in England in 2019 – four times the number in 2018 and the highest level in a decade.
Polio
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/does-polio-still-exist-is-it-curable
“Polio does still exist, although polio cases have decreased by over 99% since 1988, from an estimated more than 350 000 cases to 22 reported cases in 2017.”
“The onset has been caused by a type 2 virus contained in the vaccine. Type 2 is a wild virus that was eliminated years ago, but in rare cases the live virus in oral polio vaccines can mutate into a form capable of igniting new outbreaks of the disease.”
Let’s look at the example of the Spanish Conquistadors. None of them were sick. They sailed halfway round the world and attacked native people reeking havoc. They had to have antibodies and herd immunity… right! Yet they wiped out entire native peoples by the hundreds of thousands at least.
Here you see smallpox was counted as “help”
" Although Cortés was a skilled leader, he and his force of perhaps a thousand Spaniards and indigenous allies would not have been able to overcome a city of 200,000 without help. He got it in the form of a smallpox epidemic that gradually spread inward from the coast of Mexico and decimated the densely populated city of Tenochtitlan in 1520, reducing its population by 40 percent in a single year.
Why are people not told about immunity, their own immunity. How is it declined and how to arrest the problem? You answer me that.
That’s completely false. They got reported because all cases of measles get reported in the US and its territories. Also, there was an outbreak of measles that saw 5,700 cases in a population of 200,000 people. That’s unheard of in vaccinated populations.
Yes, in populations without vaccination. The same for the other information you link to.
So you admit that the vaccine is effective soon after injection?
Why haven’t you learned how immunity works? I would strongly suggest you learn about the adaptive immune system and why vaccines work.
I know very well how immunity works. What you don’t seem to appreciate is that being vaccinated and getting the chance to make antibodies is not enough, not by a long, long way. I will explain with an example in my life.
Fifty years ago when I was going to university, I got a golden staph infection in my leg, in a mosquito bite I had scratched. The doctors gave me one antibiotic after another and nothing worked. My leg was getting more and more swollen and red and painful. Then my doctor referred to his colleague in the corridor and I heard the colleague say “if this doesn’t work we might have to take the leg off”. I was shocked. Anyway I went straight home as I was tired and weary and thought one of my flat mates will go and get the antibiotic for me.
I went to bed and slept till the next morning. And when I woke up I found my leg was about 80% better. How on earth could that have happened? Then a year later I was talking to one of the professors in biochemistry where I was working and we talked about fear. He told me that if there is an external danger or the perception of an external danger then the person reacts with fear. Fear aims to give the musculature an advantage for fuel materials over other systems in the body. So digestion, reproduction and immunity are declined. It is supposed to be short term.
It was then that I remembered that there were funding cuts going on at the university and my job was on a grant. I was working and put myself through university.
When I heard the doctors talk about cutting my leg off I suddenly realized the real danger was in my body… the infection. This brought immunity back to working to full capacity. And it did an incredible job. In just two days the problem was gone.
Vaccines only give you the advantage of developing antibodies. THEY DO NOT AFFORD IMMUNITY.
I am not against vaccines though I am against forced vaccination. We have a right to decide what goes into our body. Doctors are trying to sell the idea that the vaccine EQUALS immunity. This is not true. You can have the antibodies and still get sick IF your immune system is declined. And you can get it working to full capacity again by recognizing that the danger is the infection and not whatever we are stressed about in our life. That is not being told to the public and that is vital information.
How does that explain the extreme effectiveness of vaccines? People were afraid of getting all of these diseases in the past, and they still got them. Now they don’t. How do you explain this?
Vaccines ONLY give us the opportunity to develop antibodies. They do not afford us immunity. It is our immune system that has to be working and making use of the antibodies. You don’t seem to appreciate this.
That doesn’t answer my question. How does that explain the extreme effectiveness of vaccines? Why was smallpox completely eradicated after the introduction of the vaccine? Why did cases of polio, mumps, measles, and pertussis nearly vanish in the US after the introduction of vaccines for those diseases?
There are no plans to do this and this conspiracy theory in its many ridiculous forms has been fact checked repeatedly and debunked.
These people are discredited scientists and flat out conspiracy peddlers known for spreading false information. Please do not share their propaganda here.
Please do not use this forum to spread misinformation about vaccines. Everyone starts somewhere when it comes to being informed, so we will give you some grace, but you may not use this space as a platform to spread lies.
Bummer! I got my call the other day. My first appointment is next week.
They haven’t nearly vanished, they are greatly reduced but why? Is it purely vaccines?. One of the things that is not discussed by the biomedical scientists is that outbreaks commonly occur where there is some external danger or crisis such as wars, famines, oppression etc. This is never mentioned.
Now as for the “extreme effectiveness” of vaccines, maybe you can offer an explanation.
Polio and measles have nearly vanished.
Yes.
They also commonly occur where there are no external crises.
Like that Disneyland measles outbreak some years back. Disneyland is the very opposite of “external crisis”.
But as a parent, it is indeed stressful! Of course, the parents were not the ones getting measles. In my medical career, have only seen one case of measles, in a 20 year old EMT 35 or so years ago before the booster MMR was recommended as it was found immunity waned with just one. I might mention that he was very sick, and very miserable, but recovered just fine.
It is tricky both ways to either rush a treatment or delay until due testing is done. We know that our medical system initially rejected the use of steroids based on an hypothetical article in the lancet that essentially caused thousands if not tens of thousands of lives particularly in the ny region. There is greater benefit to risk to attempt to treat severely ill without due process testing and by restricting our healthcare providers than there is for rushing a vaccine to vaccinate millions of people with unknown risks. As I have detailed the vaccine needs to be thoroughly tested. Can you answer my question if there is further animal testing in place for the vaccines?
The systematic failure of critical care systems to adopt corticosteroid therapy resulted from the published recommendations against corticosteroids use by the World Health Organization
(WHO) [151,152]. This recommendation was then perpetuated by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the American Thoracic Society (ATS), Infectious Diseases Association of America (IDSA) amongst others. A very recent publication by the Society of Critical Care Medicine and authored one of the members of the Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care (FLCCC) group (UM), identified the errors made by these organizations in their analyses of corticosteroid studies based on the findings of the SARS and H1N1 pandemics.[55,153] Their erroneous recommendation to avoid corticosteroids in the treatment of COVID-19 has led to the development of myriad organ failures which have overwhelmed critical care systems across the world and led to excess deaths. The recently announced results of the RECOVERY- DEXAMETHASONE study provides definitive and unambiguous evidence of the lifesaving benefits of corticosteroids and strong validation of the MATH + protocol. The RECOVERY-DEXAMETHASONE study, randomized 2104 patients to receive dexamethasone 6 mg (equivalent to 32 mg methylprednisolone) once per day (either by mouth or by intravenous injection) for ten days and were compared with 4321 patients randomized to usual care alone. Dexamethasone reduced deaths by one-third in ventilated
The WHO, CDC and others were not out of place is recommending against the use of steroids because COVID-19 is supposed to be due to a viral infection and steroids inhibit the immune system from working. How do steroids inhibit the immune response? | Pathology Student so you want the immune system working.
So why did so many people die of organ failures? What’s really going on and what is COVID-19? And is it really a “highly pathogenic and transmissible coronavirus”.
In the lungs and other organs the doctors are talking about cytokine storms, which means the immune system is attacking normal, healthy cells. From my understanding of cytokine storms this is not due to the virus and indeed cannot be due to the virus. IMO it shows the culpability of medical science in this as in other areas.
Autoimmune disease is essentially caused by cytokine storms. The immune system, through a complex sequence of events causes cell lysis and cell death. If you ask about what causes autoimmunity then the scientists say that they don’t know but there are many theories.
Most popular theories are basically saying that the immune system either goes berserk or is mistaken in attacking body cells. HOWEVER, they have seen that the immune system attacks areas of the body where there is a belief that the area is damaged.
I studied this at university back in the mid 1970s but there is precious little of this on the net with the exception of a few medicos like Dr. Lissa Rankin M.D. and she only mentions it in passing.
In the 1950s and 1960s when they were studying chemotherapy drugs, they gave the patients in the intervention arm the real drug, but they gave a sugar pill to those in the control arm. And they saw that on average around 50% of the patients in the control arm, on the sugar pill, lose their hair, vomit due to damage of the gut lining and suffer various other immune system problems. How can this happen on a sugar pill?
All the patients knew that the drugs killed rapidly dividing cells, which are in hair follicles, gut lining and bone marrow. Those patients who moved to believe that they had the real drug also believed that there would be damage to their hair follicles, gut lining and bone marrow. So a belief that there was damage done ignited the immune system to attack these areas in order to destroy damaged cells and get rid of them. Problem was that their cells were not damaged. It was a belief that moved the body in this way. That of course denies the “body is a machine and disease is damage to or a malfunction of the machine” medical paradigm.
This is also seen today, but hardly studied. And it even has a scientific name, the nocebo effect.
You can see here: The nocebo effect of drugs - PMC
but of course they are referring to these as "The nonspecific effects of a treatment are called placebo effects when they are beneficial and nocebo effects when they are harmful " and trying to say it is due to the drugs given.
They know that it is important how the doctors talk to patients in a drug trial because what is said can greatly influence the patient and sometimes with a detrimental effect. 'nocebo' effect: how informed consent can cause unnecessary harm in trials | Mirage News
So how is this happening in COVID-19, why are there cytokine storms that attack the cells and not the virus?
A person does not autosuggest and suffer harm. There is no way we can scare ourselves as to do harm, at least not of this magnitude and severity.
The suggestions come from two sources and the medical industry is one. However it alone is not enough to do the harm we see or indeed any harm on their own. The people adversely affected have been negatively influenced by people they know and know well. These are related, inhumane people in their lives with some agenda. They use the ideas that the virus is seriously harmful to mentally suggest to others in relationship of some sort, whether relative, friend, co-worker etc. And it is done under conditions of some concealed threat so as to stress the person targeted.
Use of steroids would have come sooner if the problem was not identified as a viral infection. There is a viral infection but it is not the cause of the problem. And this is evident in that the person does not develop breathing difficulties until some time days to a week or more AFTER the initial symptoms of an infection.
If people were told that belief of some damage in the body can cause the immune system to go on the attack unnecessarily, then many lives would have been saved and indeed would not suffer anything more than the flu symptoms. The problem is economic. Immuno-suppressive drugs, steroids are very lucrative since there are hundreds of millions affected with allergies and other more serious autoimmune diseases. And the consideration that the person becomes immuno-compromised is not a consideration as it appears.
What we see in COVID 19 is that we are facing an epidemic of inhumane people in the world today, which I would estimate constitute around 20% of the world’s population, probably around 1.5 billion. And they know no borders. They are in every country without exception and even worse they are networked.
My late husband, who finally after 24 years of marriage revealed he was a psychopath and referred to himself as “evil”, said that the inhumane subculture are networked for two reasons. Firstly their circle of friends are their partners in crime. He said “you can’t do evil work without others”. Thus he said the signature call “where would you be without your friends”.
The other reason he said was due to people’s movements. People move from one suburb to another, from one side of town to another or to another town on the other side of the country. People move to other countries. When inhumane people move they seek a new circle of friends, who of course are largely inhumane. They do keep human pets he said for guaranteed references should they ever need any.
When they find a new circle of friends they become the hubs between the old network and the new. Hence the old and the new circle of friends/ networks are linked.
This is “the beast” but when people understand how they operate, they can beat the evil ones easily. There is a quiet war being waged by the inhumane, but despite all their underhanded efforts, the good will win.
COVID-19 is primarily an infectious vasculitis. That is why it can damage any tissue (and some tissue likely permanently) and why any organ (including the brain) or limb can be affected.
Infectious vasculitis is only a hypothesis.
They see cells infected by a virus or bacteria signal through receptors on the cell surface that they have been infected. The immune system cells see these signals and destroy the cells. However this does not explain why there are cytokine storms because the immune system attack is not simply and only on cells displaying the presence of a pathogen within.
They see many covid-19 patients get sick and recover and NO cytokine storms. They see a small minority of those that are infected and get sick develop cytokine storms. Only a few percent end up with cytokine storms and die of the problems. In vasculitis it is the immune system attacking normal uninfected cells in blood vessel walls. In the lungs of course this causes big problems for oxygen/ carbon dioxide exchange in the air sacs so the person ends up having serious problems breathing.,
If it was due to the virus why don’t all those who get sick have cytokine storms?