Can you be a Christian without believing in the resurrection?

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

@Dale

You don’t think humankind needs to be saved.

If “saved” is same as “attaining Bliss” then yes humanity needs to be saved.

[MarkD (A Whateverist, not a Christian)]

@Terry_Sampson

"In order for something to be contradictory, it must violate the law of non-contradiction . This law states that “A” cannot be both “A” (what it is) and “not-A” (what it is not) at the same time and in the same relationship. In other words, you contradict yourself when you affirm and deny the same statement.

Interesting but I think this gives way too much significance to the categories into which we sort things. The categories we use are derivative of our array of perceptual/cognitive capacities as a species along with the happenstance of our cultural history. Language is a kind of game with rules. I don’t think the logic of our definitions have any empirical significance ontologically in the wider world. The coherence of our explanatory schema matters to us but they do not limit the possibility of finding exceptions to rules like a platypus. The patterns we detect in nature described by laws will never be so final as to rule out the possible need for additional fine tuning.

[Terry_Sampson]

@MarkD

Interesting but I think this gives way too much significance to the categories into which we sort things.

I’m sure you’re correct; but I doubt it.

@MarkD

The categories we use are derivative of our array of perceptual/cognitive capacities as a species along with the happenstance of our cultural history.

Very unlikely; but true.

@MarkD

Language is a kind of game with rules.

Indubitably, but doubtful.

• But don’t take my word for it, … The Law of Non-Contradiction: Explained and Debated [8:51]

[MarkD (A Whateverist, not a Christian)]

Thanks for the laugh. On second thought if your approach can me make laugh that much you must be right.

[Terry_Sampson]

Wait! My laugh or yours?

[MarkD (A Whateverist, not a Christian)]

Texting sucks … mine. Now edited.

[beaglelady]

@bharatjj

Miscommunication here. Your question was which Ecumenical Councils I accepted.

The councils defined orthodoxy and addressed controversies that arose. So what do you think of that? And what do you think about purgatory?

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

@bharatjj

I only find that there are other methods of attaining Bliss. I don’t like “saved.”

This is one of the fundamental divides between the eastern and western religions. Christianity in particular promises more life, even eternal life by overcoming our self-destructive tendencies which oppose life. The Eastern religions characterize life as a hopeless endless cycle of rebirth and thus seeks to escape life into some state of divine peace and bliss. The west sees its ultimate goal coming from a closer relationship with a creator God while the east sees their goal more as a product of personal knowledge or enlightenment and becoming divine oneself.

Atheism offers the ultimate peace and bliss of nonexistence merely as a result of the cessation of our physical life. It seems a little too easy to me but I find this FAR more believable than this rebirth stuff. But it is this negative view of life which repels me most about the eastern view. Atheism certainly doesn’t do that, making it even more preferable to me than the eastern religions. But my hope is in eternal life found in a parent child relationship with an infinite God where there is no end to what God can give and teach and no end to what we can receive and learn from Him.

@bharatjj

If “saved” is same as “attaining Bliss”

Not even close.

[riversea]

@Edward

based on 1 Corinthians 15:35-58 and II Corinthians 5:1 that we as Christians are raised in a spiritual body at the moment of death. This view was formulated by the Rev. W.D. Davies of Duke University School of Divinity. He also believed that these people are hidden from us in heaven until the Second Coming. They will return to earth in their resurrection bodies already raised. This is based on Colossians 3: 1-4.

This explains why the earth will continue. Am I understanding this correctly?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@bharatjj

If “saved” is same as “attaining Bliss”…

It isn’t.
 

@bharatjj

If “saved” is same as “attaining Bliss” then yes humanity needs to be saved.

No, otherwise? You must be oblivious to world news and the hearts of men.

[beaglelady]

@Terry_Sampson

I’m so sad: You are trying to put a puzzle with a thousand pieces together but you don’t know what the puzzle looks like and so you think you can put the puzzle together by yourself or with help from Allah, the Holy Spirit, and a Hindu.

Did Allah, the Holy Spirit, and a Hindu walk into a bar?

[riversea]

I learn that I don’t need any of my abilities to go to God. I can go to God just as I am and God understands me. I have notice on line people uses their abilities to seek approval from God., its an observation.

i don’t seek approval from God because God is my best friend who unconditional loves me already, i feel accepted by God. I don’t have to prove anything to God, I can go to God just as I am and hide in God too. God is my home.

[Terry_Sampson]

@riversea

• Because you do not allow other people to send you private messages, you make me use public message to send you messages.
• Do you remember? I gave you a choice: private messages or public messages. You chose public messages and now you are afraid that you said too much.
• I am not embarrassed. You do not need to be embarrassed.
• I am not “the bad man” that you think I am. But you will never know, will you? Unless you email me at terrysampson99@gmail.com.

[Kendel]

Must try harder to…?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

There is divine intelligence in the Gospel of John. I’m thinking of chapters 14 and 15 in particular, right now anyway. They dovetail nicely with the first epistle of John (chapter 5 particularly).

[Terry_Sampson]

• Okay, I am doing this your way: You hide in God and I tell you about Jesus, because your ideas about Jesus are wrong. And Bharat’s ideas about Jesus are also wrong.
• I begin in the Old Testament, with the words of the Israelite prophet, Isaiah, who lived before Jesus.
  • Isaiah–in Hebrew, יְשַׁעְיָהוּ‎, Yəšaʿyāhū–means “God is Salvation”.
    • In Isaiah Chapter 61, Verses 1 and part of 2:
      The Spirit of Yahweh Elohim is upon me,
      Because Yahweh has anointed me
      To bring good news to the humble;
      He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
      To proclaim liberty to captives
      And freedom to prisoners;
      To proclaim the time of Yahweh’s good will …
• Now, I go to the Book of Luke, Chapter 4, Verses 14 through 21:
  • Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.
    He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
    • “The Spirit of Adonai is on me,
      because he has anointed me
      to proclaim good news to the poor.
      He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
      and recovery of sight for the blind,
      to set the oppressed free,
      to proclaim the time of of Adonai’s good will.”
  • Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
• Now you can see that the prophet Isaiah told Jews that Yahweh had sent him to tell them some things. And over 600 years later, Jesus stood up in a synagogue, read Isaiah’s words aloud, then sat down, and said: “Today, I am here to fulfill Yahweh’s promise to you that Isaiah talked about.”
• And that’s what Jesus did–from the time of his Baptism by John the Baptist until he was crucified. Jesus fulfilled Yahweh’s promise, and he was killed because a few important Jews [but not all Jews] objected to the way Jesus fulfilled the promise. Jesus redeemed Yahweh’s promise and was killed for doing it.
• But that’s not the end of Jesus’ story. After he was crucified, his dead body was put in a tomb. Then Yahweh resurrected him and, for about 40 days, Jesus was seen by people who had known him before his crucifixion. And finally, Jesus’ spiritual body was raised into a cloud, in front of witnesses, and he disappeared.
• That is the short story about Jesus’ life on earth, from his Baptism until his disappearance. The Qur’an, which Muslims say contains the words of Allah Himself through Muhammad, changes the story and leaves out the part about Jesus’ death by crucifixion. Bharat plays word games with the story, too. But only Christians tell the story the way the New Testament tells it. And if you don’t tell the story the way that the New Testament tells it, you are telling the wrong story.

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

@beaglelady

The councils defined orthodoxy and addressed controversies that arose. So what do you think of that?

I think nothing of that. The Councils could be good or not good. The point is that I do not accept them blindly.

@beaglelady

And what do you think about purgatory?

I understand the souls to go into the purgatory after death before their next journey.

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

@mitchellmckain

Christianity in particular promises more life, even eternal life by overcoming our self-destructive tendencies which oppose life.

I agree and support this view.

@mitchellmckain

The Eastern religions characterize life as a hopeless endless cycle of rebirth and thus seeks to escape life into some state of divine peace and bliss.

Not quite. The cycle of rebirths is like a spiral. Not hopeless at all. Each rebirth takes on to a higher and higher and higher plane until one reaches eternal life. The difference between the Christian view is that it tries to shortcut the process through Jesus.

@mitchellmckain

The west sees its ultimate goal coming from a closer relationship with a creator God

Agree and support.

@mitchellmckain

the east sees their goal more as a product of personal knowledge or enlightenment and becoming divine oneself.

“Becoming divine” is identical with coming into a “closer relationship with a creator God.”

@mitchellmckain

Atheism offers the ultimate peace and bliss of nonexistence merely as a result of the cessation of our physical life.

I agree.

@mitchellmckain

But it is this negative view of life which repels me most about the eastern view

Actually the Biblical view is negative. It begins with sin and condemnation. The Hindu (not Buddhist) view is highly positive. It begins with man in the quest of Universality without the baggage of sin.

@mitchellmckain

But my hope is in eternal life found in a parent child relationship with an infinite God where there is no end to what God can give and teach and no end to what we can receive and learn from Him.

I like “Infinite God.” The minor distinction is that you see God as external to oneself. I see myself an integral part of God and merged into Him.

[bharatjj (Let the Truth Out)]

@riversea

. God is my home.

Cheers. Revel in God.

@Edward

They will return to earth in their resurrection bodies already raised. This is based on Colossians 3: 1-4.

3:4 When Christ (who is your life) appears, then you too will be revealed in glory with him.
I am a bit confused. Will Christ appear again?

@Dale

No, otherwise? You must be oblivious to world news and the hearts of men.

You got me wrong. If bliss and saved are same then they have to be blissed/saved. If bliss and saved are NOT same then they have to be either blissed or saved; but not necessarily saved.

[mitchellmckain (Scientist and Christian)]

@bharatjj

@mitchellmckain

Christianity in particular promises more life, even eternal life by overcoming our self-destructive tendencies which oppose life.

I agree and support this view.

No… you said this view is “negative” because the Christian view understands that we have self-destructive habits (called sin) opposed to life, and you called this “condemnation.”

@bharatjj

Each rebirth takes on to a higher and higher and higher plane until one reaches eternal life. The difference between the Christian view is that it tries to shortcut the process through Jesus.

Incorrect. The Christian view doesn’t accept the belief in reincarnation at all. The idea that repeating life can take the place of an infinite God in saving us is absurd. Jesus taught that it is simply impossible for us to do this, for only God can do it (Matthew 19).

@bharatjj

@mitchellmckain

The west sees its ultimate goal coming from a closer relationship with a creator God

Agree and support.

No you see yourself as “an integral part of God and merged into Him.” Pantheistic identity with God is not an authentic relationship.

Eternal life is an endless parent-child relationship where God gives and teaches us forever, and we becoming more like God is never ending. We remain finite and God remains infinite.