You don’t understand the Christological controversies the councils were trying to address
Only Catholics believe in Purgatory. You have little understanding of Christianity.
Yep. Life is growth and learning. Thus eternal life is growth and learning without end. Christianity promises eternal life. You look for a cessation of life “merging with God.” I see as much in atheism and find its simpler version far more believable than all this transmigrating souls stuff which doesn’t agree with the evidence of how the world works. It looks like magic and fairy tales to me. Again atheism is more believable . True the understanding by many Christians is just as magical but I think much of this is from influence by other religions via the Gnostics and I don’t believe in any of that. God and a spiritual aspect to existence I believe in. Magic and nonphysical or transmigrating rational souls I do not believe in.
Whatever words you use, it still amounts to the same thing – something which is desirable to escape from. I do not see life as something to escape from, but to seek more of – not by repetition or immortality but in a never ending relationship to an infinite God.
Yes other religions were constantly poisoning Judaism and early Christianity with false teachings, but God and the ecumenical councils have rejected that influence.
People try to force all kinds of things into the Bible including justifications for racism and slavery. I am not interested.
Speaking of which, he has no understanding of purgatory.
Or anything else, for that matter!
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Bollicks. You routinely attack the Christian faith. But here’s another question: how many sacraments are there?
- Let us make this easy for you, okay?
- You don’t have to tell me or anyone in this forum that you are not joking in every message that you post. If you want to tell silly jokes, just say: “Here is a joke.” or “Here are some jokes.” And if you say something that is not a joke, but seems to be silly or doesn’t make sense, I will ask you: “Are you joking?” And all you need to do is say: “No, I am not joking. I am serious.” Will that make it easier for you?
- Unfortunately, the word “people” usually means: “more than one human”. There are almost 8,000,000,000 people in the world, today. How many people do you think are adding to what Jesus finished? Which people are you talking about? Who told you about “people adding to what Jesus finished?”
- I believe I know where you read about Jesus saying that he finished something. What the New Testament tells us about the last things that Jesus said when he was on the cross are well-known among Christians. We call them “The seven last words of Jesus”, which is not exactly true. That is why I like to call them: "The seven last things that Jesus said (on the cross).
- One thing that he said on the cross is recorded in John 19:25-27.
- Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman, here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
- Another thing Jesus said is recorded in Luke 23:43.
- Two other men were crucified at the same time that Jesus was, one on his left and one on his right. One said to Jesus: “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And Jesus said to him: "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
- A third thing he said is recorded in Luke 23:34:
- "Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.”
- A fourth thing he said were the words of the first verse of Psalm 22 which are: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken (= abandoned) me?” Jesus’ words on the cross" are recorded in Matthew 27:46:
- "About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” (which means “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”).
- A fifth thing Jesus said is recorded in John 19:28.
- Jesus said, “I am thirsty.”
- A sixth thing he said is recorded in John 19:30.
- When he had received the drink, Jesus said, “It is finished."
- And a seventh thing that Jesus said is recorded in Luke 23:46.
- Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.”
- One thing that he said on the cross is recorded in John 19:25-27.
- When Jesus said: “It is finished”, he was saying "I have fulfilled the promise that I was sent to fulfill. He redeemed the promise. In fact, after God the Father resurrected him in the tomb, he came out and met with others who had known him before his death.
- And he said that he would soon send what his Father had promised:
- [Luke 24:49] "I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
- Now @riversea, tell me: What do you think “people” added after Jesus said “It is finished”. Do you think that when Jesus said “It is finished” and then died on the cross, that he is forbidden to say or do anything more after his resurrection; because if that is what you think, then I must tell you that you are mistaken.
- Jesus fulfilled his task and died. God resurrected him in the tomb; Jesus stayed on earth about 40 more days and then ascended and disappeared in a cloud. Before he left earth, he told his followers:
- Luke 24:44-48. "He said to them, ‘This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.’ Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. He told them, ‘This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. You are witnesses of these things.’ "
- Jesus fulfilled his task and died. God resurrected him in the tomb; Jesus stayed on earth about 40 more days and then ascended and disappeared in a cloud. Before he left earth, he told his followers:
- @riversea, the stuff that you think people added, is the stuff that Jesus told them to do: "Call people of all nations, beginning in Jerusalem, to repent for the forgiveness of their sins." What you have not understood is that Jesus expanded the call to repent, from a call just to Jews to a call for all nations [i.e. everybody else in the world at that time to today] to repent." You wanted inclusion? There it is: Inclusion of everybody who hears the story of Jesus’ life on earth, his death, his resurrection, and his ascension.
Anywhere from 3 to 7 depending on the church denomination.
Sorry to spoil your test, but… this doesn’t sound like a Christian essential to me. Where is the word sacrament found in the Bible? Taken from the word… “mystery” perhaps? LOL
Are you testing if bharatjj has been to catechism class?
At least… any part that cannot be bent and folded in to Hinduism or some other eastern religion.
Jesus’ work is finished. So the answer to your question is “Yes”.
- Yes. The more that is needed to be added to what Jesus did is “Spread the good news in his story and the call.”
- The “good news is his story”, that is: the story that I have told you above.
- “The call” is to anybody who does not know what he did on earth. Hear or read the story of what he did and what God our Father did to and through him, and then spread the good news yourself.
It’s very important to Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and mainline Protestants. I take it that you don’t believe in sacraments.
To me that is like asking if I believe in church buildings. …well they certainly do exist, I have participated in a couple and I don’t see anything wrong with them. But uh… am I supposed to put some kind of faith in them??? Am I supposed to believe they stop vampires, witches, divorces, or something? If I didn’t get married in a church does that mean you think my marriage (of 35 years) is not accepted by God? Or… does it mean I have to jump into the argument over which sacraments are real?
Believe what you want. But sacraments are important to Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc. Even some Evangelicals, such as Presbyterians.
Merging with God is eternal because God is eternal.
Not quite. I see transmigration as continuation of fulfillment.
Thanks for this conversation.
Christians believe that we retain our individual identities as children of our heavenly Father.
In fact, some kind of personal experience with him is normative for even being a Christian – it is not just subscribing to a creed or collection of doctrines, being a ‘mere professor’. The experience does not have to be external with objective physical facts, although many are and they’re cool, but maybe it should be objectively describable (not that every believer needs to).
Here is an example of the latter from someone (a fairly well known Christian author, Phil Yancey) who had been in Christian circles for a long time without being one himself, describing his conversion experience:
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Since you are happy to answer questions here’s another:
You are opposed to the creeds, So please go through the Nicene Creed line by line and explain what you find objectionable. Please take one statement at a time.
- I object.
- “God” is either “Eternal” or He is “Not Eternal”;
- “God” is either “Omnipresent” or He is "Not Omnipresent.
- Consequently, we have four possibilities:
- Likewise: A human is either “Eternal” or “Not Eternal” and either “Omnipresent” or “Not Omnipresent”.
- We can now consider 16 possibilities as shown in the table below:
- My Comments on the “16 Possibilities”:
- 1st Question, Bharat: "If one human is eternal and/or omnipresent, are all humans eternal and/or omnipresent or only some?
- 2nd Question: "If only some are eternal and/or omnipresent, which are and which are not?
- 3rd Question: “If only some are”, is it possible for those who are neither eternal and omnipresent "to make God?
- 4th Question: Elsewhere you wrote,
- If God is eternal and omnipresent and one or more humans are eternal and omnipresent, that which is eternal and omnipresent is indistinguishable from itself. What is there to be merged if not merged already? Seems to me that only that which is not yet eternal and/or not yet omnipresent is not yet merged into God. In other words, God changes as more humans become eternal and/or omnipresent. In other words. it seems: you promote the Mormon doctrine that the Mormons now back away from: “What man is, God once was; what God is is what man will become.” What if someone wants to become God, but does not want to merge with the existing God?
We know you find Judaism, Christianity, and Islam defective and in need of significant change. But what changes do you envision for Hinduism?
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Alice in Wonderland always tried to believe in 6 impossible things before breakfast.
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Welcome to Alice’s Sandbox. Grab a shovel and dig in.