Joshua Brown’s testimony of his personal healing and experience with others being healed felt sincere to me. Part of finding his testimony truthful is being able to identify with it at a personal level. And I think him and Keener are showing the capacity to be skeptical. The fact that May continued to claim a pyschosomatic explanation shows me they understand the work they are doing.
And Keener accusing May with being an unreliable witness was a very serious charge. I do not think Keener would say that if he couldn’t back it up.
Then again, I got caught saying some really nice stuff about Ravi before that whole mess broke loose
i agree with the comment that the term psychosomatic was thrown around too much. i think there is a lot of room for other explanations, including mis-diagnosis, spontaneous resolution, placebo effects, just plain lack of knowledge about some disease states. One thing that impresses me is how biology is seldom simple and straightforward, There are some syndromes or diseases once thought to be relatively straightforward that we now find may be essentially several totally different diseases that present the same way. Actually, even in the blindness case, I see that while one form is genetic, there are several other forms with different etiologies.
I watched this a while ago. Although I suspect genuine healings are few and far between, Im nt going to deny they happen. Peter May’s criteria for genuine healing would ironically fail Jesus! And he completely ignores the testimony of medical doctors, such as the late John White. The pursuit of truth is important, but dont let your own prejudices get in the way.
When you think about it, contrary to nature miracles are child’s play for God, it’s how he brings about answers to prayer through the determinations of other people that really amazes me.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
57
I have no prejudices whatsoever. Apart from all the usual Whac-A-Mole tendencies. But they do not apply here. If a true miracle of healing occurred it would break the statistical surface, it would be the lead story on the BBC, and it would have to be accepted. There could no doubt about it. Richard Dawkins would proclaim it. As would Daniel Dennett, and Sam Harris. If Christopher Hitchens were resurrected to investigate it, that would be the icing on the cake. Although difficult to prove of course.
While I don’t read everyone, and some people I’m more inclined to skim past than others, it feels unforgivable to hide comments in a discussion forum, especially in a thread the person you are ignoring started.
You are entitled to your own way, but removing people from the discussion is something I can’t understand.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
61
So what did you say? I have my reasons, your response is one of them, you are in very good company.
The comment wasn’t that important. If I have your attention, I’d be more interested in having you answer the question of whether reality and nature are synonymous (in your view).
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
65
Nature is the only reality we have any infinitesimal consilient experience of. Nothing in nature requires transcendent reality. I certainly desire the latter nonetheless. Who wouldn’t? So yes, nature and reality are synonymous as far as we know.
Maybe as far as you know… and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. But don’t include me in your we.
You made a comment awhile back that made me wonder if you were able to say those terms are synonymous. I need to go back and look at the original comment to remember the implication.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
67
If you know otherwise by consilient natural epistemics, then I’m all eyes.
That isnt how the world works. They will always come up with any excuse not to believe. Just as many did in Jesus’ day - people, for the most part, viewed Him as a magician. Not real. Nothing has changed.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
70
Nonsense. A miracle speaks for itself. As it did then. The problem with then was superstition, magical thinking. Lack of rationalism. Jesus’ thousand days of miracles were attributed to Satan. Not fakery. Not modern magic. The problem with now is also superstition. Not rationality. If a miracle occurred no rational person could deny it. Rationality, objectivity, disinterest, science, statistics guarantee the detection of miracles if they were to occur. They don’t.
