You are reading it in English. I don’t believe Hebrew has the same concept of “quotes.” One of the regulars that knows Hebrew can correct me if I am wrong. In looking in an interlinear I noticed there were no quote marks.
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That’s pretty much the opposite meaning of ‘literal’. A ‘subjective’ 7 days would be a better suggestion. Still, to a being outside of time, I suspect any experience of time passing would be a nonsensical concept.
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Adding ornamental detail is exactly what you would expect with a story that people would otherwise conclude is Not a true story.
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As for the rib story, there Jewish interpreters who think the answer is obvious: the rib story provides an etymological explanation for human anatomy!
A. Human males are known to be one of the few (only?) Group to not have a bone reinforcement for their masculine anatomy.
B. The word for Rib is obscure in that it can refer to a number of human parts.
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They aren’t using quartz vibrations. You can read more about cesium atomic clocks here. These clocks can only tick at one speed in the conditions they are kept. You can’t just invoke some mystery factor that happens to change clocks exactly in keeping with Einstein’s equations without some evidence to back it up. Until such evidence is presented, the accuracy of these clocks stands.[quote=“still_learning, post:112, topic:36495”]
Sure one could argue anything…but why 5min? My time warp theory isn’t based on a random, " what if". It’s based on the other parallel uses of 7 days in the Bible and he literal interpretation of the genesis account.
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Where is the evidence to back it?[quote=“still_learning, post:112, topic:36495”]
Surely you don’t believe that do you? Gravity doesn’t make/effect time. Do those on the I.S.S age slower or not at all due to the lack of gravity?
Gravity could effect the way we measure time…like if we used an hourglass to measure time, sure. But it can’t/doesn’t effect time of happening.
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Incredulity is not much of an argument. Another example is the GPS network of satellites. They have to constantly update the clocks on these satellites because they tick at a different rate than clocks on Earth, and that is due to their distance from Earth’s center of gravity. We know that time ticks at different rates depending on their position in a gravity well because we can measure those differences.
Also, no one is saying that people on the ISS don’t age. Their clocks are only ticking at a very slightly faster rate, something like nanoseconds per day. The same happens when you take a plane ride at high altitude, as was shown in the Hafele-Keating experiments which have been confirmed numerous times with modern technology.[quote=“still_learning, post:112, topic:36495”]
During. Constant conditions, you are correct, they “tick” /are measured at one speed/rate. But if you changed certain conditions, that rate would change.
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What conditions are those, and where is your evidence that those conditions were changed in the experiments?[quote=“still_learning, post:112, topic:36495”]
So if the earth sped up and moved sun twice as fast…we wouldn’t age any faster. Sure our number age would go higher, but we would all live to 160 as opposed to 80. The time of happening doesn’t change, just the way we measure it. I believe the earth circled the sun 4.5 billion times in a few days according to the time of happening. Or that furthest galaxy/star that we see and measure red shift etc. that star actually travelled for us at at the speed of light for 13.7 billion years in a few days of happening.
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The laws of physics allows planets to orbit the Sun at different speeds. It doesn’t allow cesium clocks to tick at different rates. You are comparing apples and oranges.[quote=“still_learning, post:112, topic:36495”]
I believe the earth circled the sun 4.5 billion times in a few days according to the time of happening. Or that furthest galaxy/star that we see and measure red shift etc. that star actually travelled for us at at the speed of light for 13.7 billion years in a few days of happening.
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You are free to believe whatever you want, but reality is not forced to conform to your beliefs.
V[quote=“Bill_II, post:127, topic:36495”]
You are reading it in English. I don’t believe Hebrew has the same concept of “quotes.” One of the regulars that knows Hebrew can correct me if I am wrong. In looking in an interlinear I noticed there were no quote marks.
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Their writings might not have had quotations in it. But I’m sure they understood that one could quote someone or write what someone else says and the importance of not distorting or changing what God told them to write. They say " the Lord says…". Sounds a lot like quotes, whether they actually used quotes or not.
True, somewhat subjective…as all time is subjective or relative…like I have been saying. When I say literal, I mean in the relative/subjective sense that days occur to humans today. I agree time is a nonsensical concept to God, but He wrote the Bible and made the universe for us humans, and thus created a subjective time for us.
I actually have grown in this area. I was thinking to myself, how would I write about a flood if I was telling a story. If I just said, a big boat…well how big, elephant size, football field size etc. now that I know we are talking football field size, I know you meant big, even if that used measurements to make a figure of speech. Obviuolsy they didn’t have football fields back then. Like if I was so hungry I could eat a horse…if you never saw a horse I would say, I was so hungry, I could eat a 7’ long by 6’ tall hunk of meat. Details make the story to emphasize how hungry I was.
So I am starting to look at some stories differently. Some unnecessary details become necessary for the story telling. But still some don’t, like limiting 120 days. I’ll open a new thread for that one.
The problem with usuing details to tell a story theory…is that you run yourself into the other biologos theory that is ruined by saying God is not deceptive. Where biologos believes that the earth could be ~5000 years old old 13.7 billion years of “false history” as you call it planted, which is ruled out because God is not deceptive.
But why is it deceptive for God to " plant false history" to tell a story, but it isn’t for man to " plant false details?
Can you elaborate on this? Are you saying females have this? Or what other animals? Muscles help or bones move, don’t reinforce, and fat cushions them, skin protects them. I’m not sure I know what you mean when you say reinforce them?
Not to measure time…but they are used in the atomic clocks, the quartz oscillators.
I am not debating the accuracy of atomic clocks it is an extremely accurate MEASUREMENT of time. But that is all it is doing, like an hourglass, measuring time. We just discovered that hour glasses measurements can be manipulated by different gravity, and we discovered a factor ( speed ) that changes the measurements of the atomic clock.
I know this, this proves what I am saying. So do Hafele-Keating experiments.
There are many many factors that our age is a measurement of and so many can be manipulated. The theory of relativity says basically, the faster you go, the slower time goes. The time of happening doesn’t slow, just the time measurement that you are relative to. Atomic clock measurements slow, your aging slows, every measurement we know of slows, effectively time is slowing…but not the time of happening.
If you traveled a year at 95% speed of light, you would age 1 year, but the people of earth would have aged 3.2 years. 3.2 years is the time of happening.
To extrapolate this to my theory. God created the universe in 3.2 years, but in the time of happening, it only took 1 year. Or 13.7 billion years, it 7 days.
Again, not using the proper terminology from my first post has confused this some I believe. I should have used relative time and happening time from the beginning.
The reason an atomic clock moving faster ticks slower is because for it, time is slowing down, but it is really just the atoms slowing down, as it measures atomic oscillations. But the eaths revolutions around the sun didn’t slow, the time of happening didn’t slow, just the relative time to the object at that speed. Our time is relative to speed, and since on earth, we are basically all moving at the same speed, our time is the same. But even if you traveled 99% the speed of light, and relative time moved slower for you, the time of happening doesn’t change.
We are subject to a relative time, as our planet, our solar system, and even our galaxy is moving at a speed. But God is outside of time and relatively, He is in the realm of time of happening. The beginning happened, the creation of the universe happened regardless of the earth revolving around the sun, regard
Less of an hour glass sands of time falling, regardless of a quartz oscillating, regardless of a cesium atom oscillating with a quartz oscillation feedback, time happens, history happened.
I know it is sci-fi, but you will never be able to time travel. You can go into the further possibly…by traveling fast enough that your relative time slows and when you stop the future is here, but you can never go back into the past, it happened. I would even guess that God cannot go into the past. But since He is outside of time and has no relative speed, And being all knowing, could have manipulated the past (when the past was present) to get the future outcomes He wanted. He can slow and probably stop time, but I don’t think He can affect the past or change the time of happening. I see plenty of evidence of Him manipulating relative time, but not one of Him changing the time of happening or the past. Relative time as we know it began when In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and all the laws of physics and relativity and energy as we know them today.
I absolutely agree, it is just my time lapse theory. I am fine if you don’t believe in my theory. What I am more trying to explain is that you are not understanding my theory. I am debating you that time is relative and that atomic clocks measuremeasure relative time, not time of happening. Hafele-Keating experiments Prove that.
But again sorry, that is probably my fault for not using proper terminology to begin with.
What factors are changing the rate at which atomic clocks tick?[quote=“still_learning, post:131, topic:36495”]
The theory of relativity says basically, the faster you go, the slower time goes.
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That is false. If you got in a rocket ship and sped up to 0.5 times the speed of light you would not measure any change in the passage of time while on the ship.[quote=“still_learning, post:131, topic:36495”]
To extrapolate this to my theory. God created the universe in 3.2 years, but in the time of happening, it only took 1 year. Or 13.7 billion years, it 7 days.
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I still don’t see how this relates to relativity. If you accelerate the Earth then it will be younger than the rest of the universe. However, the Earth appears to be older, not younger, according to your model.[quote=“still_learning, post:131, topic:36495”]
The reason an atomic clock moving faster ticks slower is because for it, time is slowing down, but it is really just the atoms slowing down, as it measures atomic oscillations.
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You only see a difference in the passage of time between frames of reference, not within a frame of reference.
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That was the standard way of saying “What I am about to tell you comes with the Lord’s authority”. Doesn’t mean they quote God verbatim. And if you go back to what we were talking about originally you will notice there is no “Thus says the Lord” in sight.
The passage is time is different when measured in different frames of reference. Atomic clocks measure the passage of time in their frame of reference. Are you aware of the twin paradox? There are two twins. One leaves on a space ship that can travel at .5 c. When the ship returns the twin left on earth has aged more than the twin on the space ship. Each twin experienced a different passage of time due to the two different frames of reference.
For your theory what are the frames of reference and how fast are they moving relative to each other? The passage of time is only different if the frames are moving relative to each other.
It’s called the os penis aka penis bone, baculum, etc. George is right; human males don’t have that bone but many animals do, such as dogs. (I took animal Anatomy and Physiology.)
Oh my goodness…
I have just sent you a PM in order to provide you enough of the necessary details for you to understand my references.
I refuse to post a Wiki link on this topic… for even the intro section of the Wiki text is too much for my fragile constitution to banter around within these hallowed halls…
I will leave it to the seriously curious to look up the term “baculum” for themselves.
[ @beaglelady, I see that not only was I too bashful, but 2 hours late, in my posting. Well done. ]
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Gen 6:13-21 God says to Noah. And I it is quotes…that sounds to me like another way of saying “thus says the Lord”. Or gen 7:1-4 and the Lord said to Noah.
How is that not interpreted as a direct quote from God? although maybe not verbatim, because it wasn’t written down seconds later. But paraphrased to convey the original meaning.
I’m getting at that a story teller to tell a story could say " I built it 200 cubits by 500… to tell a story and add detail. But this isn’t some made up detail for a story, it is a quote/paraphrase from God.
Exactly. That is what I have been saying. But they all have a frame of reference. God does not have a frame of reference… it happening time still happens to God, we have no evidence that He can go back in time or time if happening. If I. Happening time it took 7 days, but in the realm of our universe, the frame of reference was 13.7 billion years, the it was.
Exactly what I have been trying to explain. Time is relative to you frame of reference. And God being the twin outside of reference and all of the universe being inside the frame of reference. Like when I am watching a tree grow on YouTube, I am outside of that frame of reference, and it takes me 5 min to watch. But to the tree inside if that frame of reference, it takes 5 years to grow. Or if I watch a time lapse of the universe cig, it takes me 7 min to watch, but it covers 13.7 billion years.
Exactly, like a car going 50mph and another one going 100 mph. Depending on which car you are in, you are moving 50mph faster or slower than each other. But to the observer in a helicopter hovering, you are going 50 and 100. But if the helicopter wants to fly at 50 mph, then one car’s velocity is 0, and the other is 50. The person in the helicopter can go backwards, and make both velocities faster. God being in the helicopter can go at whatever velocity He wants to give the velocities of the cars…bad analogy, but I think you know what I mean.
He created what He created, and it took Him time of happening to create it, but no associated time with reference to us or our laws of physics. But knowing our laws of physics, since He created them for us, wanted to have it to have only taken Him 7 days, so that is the relative time He assigned it to have taken Him in the time if happening. So if there was a human observer next to God that was inside of our human time reference (though God was still outside of this reference though next to man) that human would be watching a time lapse of insanely fast collisions and explosions and planets forming in seconds and the earth (once formed) spinning around the sun at so fast it would have looked like a solid ring.
That is the time lapse theory.
I had no clue some Jews believed this… but @Christy already satisfied an explanation for me.
Speed. This is what the Hafele-Keaton’s experiments showed…
No…that’s true… Time dilution
You are still misunderstanding my theory. I was using speed to slow slow time time to show you time is al relative to its frame of reference. But speed is a function of distance over time. If you speed up time, than the speed remains constant. In the example above, the person next to God watching the creation of the universe.Time lapse God is quicksilver in this. He spends a great amount of time creating the universe 13.7 billion years). But only 7 days passes to this being who can control time references. BUT, this being can’t control the time of happening, if he had to travel too far, before he could get to a bullet, then the damage would be done. You can’t go back in time, or change the time of happening.
Exactly. But for the one outside that frame of reference, time is whatever they decide to base that reference off of.
That is just a part of the story. When a prophet wants to invoke the authority of God he always said Thus says the lord.
If it is not verbatim how can you call it a quote? A quote is supposed to be the words said.
Not sure what you were trying to say but God can in a sense go back in time. God created time and therefore exists outside of time. From our perspective He exists in an eternal now. I have said before that God’s Now is the same Now yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Ascribing the passage of time to God just doesn’t work. That is why your theory falls apart.
God is everywhere at the same time. He would be in every possible frame of reference at the same time so you can’t say He is outside of any frame of reference.
Velocity doesn’t work the same way as relativity. [quote=“still_learning, post:136, topic:36495”]
He created what He created, and it took Him time of happening to create it
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No he created by command and it didn’t take any amount of time at all. This is why some of the earth church fathers didn’t think the 6 days were 6 literal days.
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He isn’t a prophet though…
That doesn’t mean he wasn’t speaking the words from God.
Apparently that is just what the English decided to do in their translations. But the quote might just mean a paraphrase, so the concept is unchanged, but a few words might be different. But numbers in a quote or paraphrase aren’t changed.
What proof or evidence do you have of this?
I agree, and have said that…I said God is outside of it reference. But not outside the time of happening. I don’t know the proper word to explain that if there is a word. But once something happens, it can’t be undone. Like if you stab someone, that is done, you stabbed them. Sure God could heal it up in seconds so it is if you didn’t, but in the truth time of happening, you did.
There are plenty of references of God manipulating the time reference, but not one that I am aware of, where God changes the past.
I agree. Where have I said different?
I am not ascribing a passage of time to God. I am saying He ascribed a passage if time to us. he wanted 7 days to pass, so it did.
Not stating that as fact…stating that in my theory, this is how it works…just to clarify.
I know they don’t…it’s an analogy I attempt to help people conceptualize…
Ok, this is what you believe. I just wouldn’t state that as fact. We are all guessing as to what this would have looked like.
Like that video showed, quicksilver ran around and did all kinds of things. But to those watching, it happened instantly.
I could picture God speaking something, and like a potter forming clay, a sculpture comes to life. And tone person next to God watching, it happened so fast, it did happen instantly.
I do think God could have made it happen instantaneously, but I don’t believe He did. I believe He wanted it to take 1 day each step, so He made it tame 1 day. And then He told us that it took 1 day.
Just like EC believes God could have created the universe in 7 days and created things as if it was old, but they don’t Believe He did.
It is just my beliefs or theory of how I think it could have happened, and it just so happens to not violate any laws of physics, it agrees/works with evolution and any other scientific finding, and it also happens to agree with the literal genesis 1 account.
I am not sayin all of genesis is literal, but I believe gen 1 was.
Just like biologos believes not all the Bible is literal, but some parts are.
Some early church fathers also though the earth was flat, and the sun moved around us…people think things and have theories. It doesn’t make them right nor give any weight to an theory.
I am not saying I am right, I just don’t think lost understand my theory first. So I can’t really defend my theory as it seems arguments are coming up that my theory doesn’t speak of.
There is the potential I am wrong, in which case i my misinterpretation of genesis, I am ascribing time to God, which I agree would not work. However if the interpretation is literal, then God would be the one ascribing time to us.
Definition of quote. repeat or copy out (a group of words from a text or speech), typically with an indication that one is not the original author or speaker.
Definition of paraphrase. express the meaning of (the writer or speaker or something written or spoken) using different words
If it is not a quote it is not repeating the words God said.
I don’t need evidence. God exists outside of time. It is hard to wrap your mind around, but He is everywhere and in every time. So He is currently viewing, if you will, 13 billion years ago and at the same time viewing next week.
We are constrained to what is called the arrow of time. To us time only moves forward. God is not because he exists outside of time.
I never said that He did. To God the past is His now. Just like tomorrow is His now.
How is this different from just telling the story of creation as if it occurred over 6 days? I see no difference.
You might want to reread Genesis. Genesis 1:3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
God said and there was. No indication of a passage of time.
It shows people have not always read Genesis 1 to represent 6 literal days so you might want to consider that idea.
Interpretations are created by us and are not inspired or infallible. Each person choses how he/she will interpret Scripture. What you keep calling your theory is really just your interpretation.
This perception of “same type” is a curious bi-product of having blinders against seeing the Earth as very old.
For you and other YECs, you see horses and cows and lions being produced all in the same week as dinosaurs and trilobites.
But once one looks at the plain evidence for the age of the Earth, all of a sudden one has a extremely difficult problem to solve - - which only Evolution solves:
All Dinosaurs are found buried under the K-T boundary, and all the large mammals are found buried above the K-T boundary. And in all the layers above and below that boundary, we find fossilized patterns from rain drops, from creatures walking to and from their meals, we find primitive land plants in the very lowest of these layers, while the more interesting plants that evolved after insects arrived on land, are not found mixed in with the primitive plants, but only in the upper layers.
For those watching for modern-type horses, lions and bears . . . their location in the fossil stack is quite perplexing, beause anything looking modern is quite high in the stack, and when following the trail of these large mammals back into time, when they disappear, all of a sudden we find other variations that are distinct from the modern phenotypes.
So, we are left with the notion that God invoked the presence of these modern mammals at various times and locations… creating fossils that materialize - - basically - - from nowhere.
Or we conclude that these animals, like the ring species of our prior discussions, came from somewhere … and that given enough time, the aggregation of micro-evolutionary events produces proto-whales with legs, preceded by Hippo-like mammals with more aquatic features than the original Hippos.
We conclude that “speciation within a type”, given enough time, very frequently turns into a very different kind of population… because what you and I call a “type” is not something that chromosomes recognize as immutable. Shapes, colors, sizes and behaviors all shift with genetic changes, until it becomes more or less obvious that the newer population is no longer anything like what the older population was.
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I agree. Viewing and knowing the last and the future, and knowing this and probably every contingency and the last wave of the “butterfly effect” from a change in the present, He can change, the present and the future, and He knows the present and the future, and the past, but I do not believe He can change the past. I could be wrong, and if He did, we would never know He did, but I see no references or accounts of God ever changing the past.
So that being believed, the past happened, it is in essence, a time of happening.
I agree and have said God is outside of time. But not really outside of happening, or the past, or what I refer to as time of happening, because there is no word for it. I think since the word “time” is in it, it confuses. I have no proof or any reference to God ever effecting the past. Or maybe He can, but doesn’t want to, because that somewhat would affect free will. If a choice could be undone, it’s not really the freedom to chose. That is what makes choices to dire, they can’t be undone. The future could be manipulated to atone for what has been done, but it can’t be never happened.
And in this happening of things that occurred, God could have allowed 7 days to pass, while He speed up time as we know it today, to form the universe over 13.7 billion years.
I’m not sure I agree with that. Because He can change the now, but not the past.
It’s not different.
Im confused that you have a problem with it taking 7 days to create the universe, yet you are ok with it happened instantaneously? From no passage of time to 13.7 billion years? I thought EC believes it happened over 13.7 billions year?
A theory based on my interpretation. That I keep testing my hypothesis, and it keeps standing true, so it is a theory.
I’m not saying it is true, I just haven’t found it to be untrue yet.
Sorry you took the time to write that above post, you responded to an older post of mine. I am leaning much more towards “macro-evolution” now. I understand how speciation occurs in animals. Like I understand how like biologos videos speak of that pakicetus evolved to a whale. Legs couldn’t handle the weight, no need for legs etc. that’s logical.
But how did animals or insects start? From cells? That is more than speciation right?
Before the past happened God already knew what was going to happen. He knew every decision that was going to be made and the consequences of those decisions. If He wanted to change “the past” He could do so before the past became the past.
God creates by command. How long it takes that command to be completed is a different question. Which is why I don’t believe the 6 days of creation are literal days when we know that creation took longer than 6 days.
Hi SL,
Hope you are doing well by God’s grace today.
If God has no frame of reference for measuring time, then how can we speak meaningfully of the passage of time for Him?
Grace and peace,
Chris Falter
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Speed didn’t affect the rate at which those clocks tick. Speed changed spacetime itself.[quote=“still_learning, post:136, topic:36495”]
No…that’s true… Time dilution
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First, it is time dilation. Second, time dilation states that time ticks at the same rate within a frame of reference no matter what your acceleration is. Time dilation only applies to two objects that are moving at different speeds. If you are on the ship you will be moving the same speed of the ship, so there will be no difference in the passage of time while you are on the ship in the ship’s frame of reference.[quote=“still_learning, post:136, topic:36495”]
If you speed up time, than the speed remains constant. In the example above, the person next to God watching the creation of the universe.
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If you speed up time to pack in Earth’s history into 6-10,000 year period then you have some serious problems. For example, radioactive decay will increase greatly which will fry all life on Earth.
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@still_learning, how interesting.
First of all, we have to agree that for the purposes of this thread, we are not talking about “life from lifeless matter”. I am addressing your questions about insects (which are considered animals).
[[ When you clarify what you meant when you asked about “animals” in your post above - - could you have meant “mammals”? - - I can broaden my discussion.]]
Insects are classified as “Arthropods” - -
Approximately 97% of all animal species are invertebrates (which can also included shell fish, squid, octopus, jellyfish and worms). But the bulk of invertebrates are arthropods, with the bulk of arthropods being Insects (six legged animals with exoskeletons).
There are a few small groups of six legged arthropods that are not insects, but we’ll talk about them some other day.
In the article linked above (on Hexapods), it introduces the latest belief that the closest surviving group related to the insects would be crustaceans.
One theory for how insects emerged is that they broke away from the “Fairy Shrimp” group - - this group is typically represented by Brine Shrimp, a life form that is particularly well adapted to very saline, land-locked bodies of water.
One can imagine that some land-locked bodies of water became especially exposed to regularly parched cycles … with some of them permanently becoming completely dried out. Brine Shrimp have a body configured into the classic 3 sections of insects (head, thorax and abdomen), but they have 11 pair of swimming legs. [22 legs]
Creatures that wanted to move around on the dryer parts of the shore, would have benefited from reducing the length of its body, and develop a few sturdy legs instead of 11 pair. But other land-based arthropods, like centipedes and millipedes show the diversity of these kinds of adaptation.
The hexapod article includes this:
“Molecular analysis suggests that the hexapods diverged from their sister group, the Anostraca (fairy shrimps), at around the start of the Silurian period 440 million years ago - coinciding with the appearance of vascular plants on land.”
FN 29: Gaunt, M.W.; Miles, M.A. (1 May 2002). “An Insect Molecular Clock Dates the Origin of the Insects and Accords with Palaeontological and Biogeographic Landmarks”. Molecular Biology and Evolution. 19 (5): 748–761. ISSN 1537-1719. PMID 11961108. doi:10.1093/oxfordjournals.molbev.a004133."
ABSTRACT LINK & TEXT:
"Abstract
“A unified understanding of >390 Myr of insect evolution requires insight into their origin. Molecular clocks are widely applied for evolutionary dating, but clocks for the class Insecta have remained elusive.”
“We now define a robust nucleotide and amino acid mitochondrial molecular clock encompassing five insect orders, including the Blattaria (cockroaches), Orthoptera (crickets and locusts), Hemiptera (true bugs), Diptera, and Lepidoptera (butterflies and moths). Calibration of the clock using one of the earliest, most extensive fossil records for insects (the early ancestors of extant Blattaria) was congruent with all available insect fossils, with biogeographic history, with the Cambrian explosion, and with independent dating estimates from Lepidopteran families.”
“In addition, dates obtained from both nucleotide and amino acid clocks were congruent with each other. Of particular interest to vector biology is the early date of the emergence of triatomine bugs (99.8–93.5 MYA), coincident with the formation of the South American continent during the breakup of Gondwanaland.”
“More generally, we reveal the insects arising from a common ancestor with the Anostraca (fairy shrimps) at around the Silurian-Ordovician boundary (434.2–421.1 MYA) coinciding with the earliest plant megafossil.” [< vascular plants]
“We explore Tilyard’s theory proposing that the terrestrial transition of the aquatic arthropod ancestor to the insects is associated with a particular plant group (early vascular plants). The major output of the study is a comprehensive series of dates for deep-branching points within insect evolution that can act as calibration points for further dating studies within insect families and genera.”
[END]
The jump from 22 legs to 6 legs is an abrupt shift. A similar jump had to occur from some other marine arthropod (say, the horseshoe crab), which makes the jump from marine to terrestrial ecosytems - as spiders! [8 legs].
The jump to 6 legs appears to have been quite stable in that we don’t see a lengthy “biological debate” as life forms moved from 22 legs, to 20 legs, to 16 legs and so on. It appears to have been a relatively random jump (assuming we can use that term when God is the one making the decisions) to a number of legs (six) that appear to allow these creatures to do just about anything they want. Some legs are used to assist in hunting. Others for defense. Others became specialized for jumping. So once six legs appeared, there was relatively no pressure on insects to change leg counts yet again.
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I agree, to an extent But once this event occurs, and becomes past, He couldn’t change it. But God can’t change our free will, and once we chose to do something, it is done, He can’t change that. However God can change the future via that present. Example if I stab a man, God could heal the wound instantaneously as if it never happened. But He can’t change the fact that it did happen. But knowing it was going to happen, could have obviously prevented me from stabbing someone. But it wouldn’t be free will if He prevented us from doing the things we wanted to for every decision. It is difficult to understand predestination and free will.
But the point again, is once the past happens, it can’t be changed, and God might not have wanted to change it but it can’t change, it occurred, it happened, the time of happening occurred. Being that something happened, it couldn’t be instantaneous, there were multiple events, so some amount of time had to occur. How much time? It depends on what the person outside of time assigns to it.
I agree, I think it took longer too, 13.7 billion years…and 6 days.
I’m not sure I follow what you are saying? I am not speaking of a passage of time for Him. He said it took 6 days, He is speaking for me. He knows our frame of reference (how we measure days) and said it took 6 days. And science shows 13.7 billion years, so that is right too. He sped up time as we know it so that both can be correct.
I agree. Speed changes spacetime itself IN the thing that is speed up. But it can’t change the time of happening. If the atomic clock goes fast in a plane or spaceship, spacetime actually slows for that thing going that fast, but everything else time ticks like ‘normal’.
I agree, where does it look like I said contrary?
why is this not a problem currently, for a universe that is 13.7 billion years old? I am saying the same thing. Time for the ‘spaceship’ the universe is in, ticked like normal, so nothing is different than how you believe it to be. It is only different for God, who is ‘outside of the spaceship’ who saw it occur in 6 days.
@gbrooks9 thank you for posting that.