Ben Stanhope addresses AiG positions

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #41

Your point being?

(George Brooks) #42


Hmmmm… funny, Yahweh says the same thing about Job !!!

Job 34:35
Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.

Is no one safe from the Lord !?!?

So you think Yahweh is chastising Elihu for his ridiculous descriptions of natural events?

Or is Elihu being chastised for what he says about morality and justice?

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #43

From my knowledge the Hebrew/Babylonian cosmology looked a little more like this:

Do excuse my crude artwork.

(George Brooks) #44

I will excuse your artwork when you include the heavenly ocean that Stanhope has demonstrated was a part of the Babylonian world view!

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #45

Something I find interesting, but which hasn’t been mentioned much by scholars is the relationship between Genesis 1 and Psalm 74. Both utilise creation myths as a response to the Jews losing heart during the Babylonian exile. Genesis 1 seems to be a theological message that God has not abandoned them, Psalm 74 seems to be a direct polemic against Babylon, by asserting that Yahweh, not Marduk defeated the primordial chaos serpent at the start of creation.

(George Brooks) #46

So, @Reggie_O_Donoghue

you are not going to exclude the heavenly ocean shown in the Shamash illustration?

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #47

I see no reson why it can’t refer to the gods sitting upon the Apsu in their temple (the Apsu (the underground freshwater sea) had a function in Mesopotamian temples similar to Solomon’s brazen sea), the three stars (and similar circles in groups of three) are common motiifs in Mesopotamia, so needn’t have cosmological significance.

(George Brooks) #48


I am disappointed in your analysis… all you have to do is show any Babylonian image with stars buried in the mud of the ocean… and then you’ll be excused from being an Apologia Hound…

And further, you are putting Shamash on a throne floating in the Persian Gulf?

I would find it very difficult to rely on your interpretations of any other ancient relics…

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #49

The stars in that image are symbols of the goddess Ishtar. Another symbol of her’s was the rosette, as on the Ishtar gate.

I needn’t see why there needs to be any cosmological significance.

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #50

Note too how the wavy lines on the “ocean” resemble Shamash’s rays.

(George Brooks) #51


First, so what’s your point about Shamash’s rays? Are you saying that’s not water, it’s light?.. and Shamash is floating on rays of light?

As for your massive reinterpretation of the Shamash imagery … let me add an additional insight … I think the Sun we are looking at in the image is actually part of a solar powered sewing machine.

But seriously, Reggie, can you find a single expert on the ANE who agrees with your interpretation? I seriously doubt it…

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #52

Do you not see why this is a false equivalence? The image used consistently for the sun is used here.

As far as I’m aware of, this is the only image from Mesopotamia which supposedly shows a celestial ocean.

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #53

I’m saying that it doesn’t have any cosmological significance, and I thought I made it very clear.

(Christy Hemphill) #54

6 posts were split to a new topic: Raqia / Firmaments : Floors of Heaven vs Outer Space?

(Reggie O'Donoghue) #55

One small reservation which I have with Robert Holmstedt’s thesis is that why has Genesis 1:1 been mistranslated for thousands of years?

(George Brooks) #56

(system) #57

This topic was automatically closed 6 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.