Back to the pandemic response

I just saw this discussion by Dr. Collins and found it interesting.


Wow! … a public official actually admitting from their now hindsight advantage that they wished they had done some things differently! I wonder if we can find any examples of influencers from the tribe of Collins critics who have admitted they were wrong or perhaps should have done things differently… even just about anything? Or do we find instead prolific examples of people who double down on lies?

May those of earnest good will and well-trained competence - may their kind increase!


Here is what Collins says in the video:

“As a guy living inside the Beltway, feeling a sense of crisis, trying to decide what to do in some situation room in the White House with people who had data that was incomplete, we weren’t really thinking about what that would mean to Wilk and his family in Minnesota, a thousand miles away from where the virus was hitting so hard. We weren’t really considering the consequences in communities that were not New York City or some other big city. The public health people, we talked about this earlier, if you’re a public health person and you’re trying to make a decision, you have this very narrow view of what the right decision is, and that is something that will save a life. It doesn’t matter what else happens. So you attach infinite value to stopping the disease and saving a life. You attach a zero value to whether this actually totally disrupts people’s lives, ruins the economy, and has many kids kept out of school
in a way that they never quite recovered.”

The lockdowns caused immeasurable harm the world over. Whether or not they were worth it seems to be an ongoing issue. His flippant response here is disconcerting and certainly not going to increase public trust in scientists.


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Yes, the admission is a good thing.

That is not often seen in government.

The last instance I recall was Janet Yellen’s admitting errors with inflation expectations. I appreciated that too.

I recall many saying about the lockdowns “if we just save one life, it will be worth it.” That was a naive and incorrect statement, but it sounded good to many.


How many millions of Ugandan children never made it back into school after their 2 year shutdown? How will that lower the quality of life and life expectancy for millions of children? How many extra little girls were sold as sex slaves to deal with the financial burden of a closed economy compared to normal over there? This is just one example amongst probably millions in the world.

The shutdowns hurt poor people more as well. Laptopper crew and government officials/employees probably lived just fine. A lot of big corporations seemed to do okay as well in many regards. As a teacher I was paid normally. Lived fine. But many people not in the “in” crowd suffered immeasurably and lost everything. Now we have interest rates and rent surging across the board.

I’m sure the lockdowns helped save some lives in regards to Covid but I’m sure they also destroyed many as well and led to a lot of deaths in other ways.

All in the name of scientific consensus which really never existed on the overall impact of lockdowns because the impact is complicated and will take decades to figure out.

I thank all the fear peddlers for their emotional blackmail. A few elitists in charge got to become policy tyrants and destroy peoples lives. This is why many of us Americans will die before we give up our 2nd amendment rights. We don’t trust Uncle Sam to take care of us or always do what’s in our best interest.



How you get flippant out of that is beyond me. Sounds well considered, humble and thoughtful to me. What is flippant is how many treated the death and suffering caused by the pandemic, denying that it was real or a significant problem. Unfortunately, most of the response of the organized church fell into area of flippant as we failed to minister well to those most affected, those who could not afford to work from home and those in multi-generational households who suffered some of the highest mortality and morbidity.


I agree. No one will be perfect. There were many things that harmed, but the death of millions is much worse. I hope that we can learn from this pandemic how better to communicate, mitigate loss (I have met people who talked with virtually no one for months during the lockdown), and still protect lives. I don’t think anyone had bad intent, on either side.

It is not easy, sitting in the seat and being asked what to do, as Collins and Fauci, the WHO and CDC were. Epidemics have a huge effect on people, ranging from 1-2% to 30% or more mortality rates, devastating parts of the world (such as the Black Death and smallpox.). One researcher believes they may have greatly affected history as humans developed socially to survive (Pathogenesis), even leading to the rise of Christianity and Islam.

Many did suffer from the social isolation. Some have gone far overboard, as in China. However, I hope that we can learn how better to protect people in all ways.

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I don’t think that happened often.

What did happen was that many people questioned the effectiveness and legality of the mandates of masking, isolation, lockdowns, vaccinations, and other such things.

It was often not that death and suffering was trivialized; it was death and suffering from the disease was assumed to be avoidable and that the costs of avoidance were dismissed or ignored.

100% agree with Dr Collins.

Im tired of those who complain about mandatory restrictions.or immunisations/ vaccination…these are often the same assholes who wont implement safety first principles in their own lives. Why should a health compromised individual have to put up with selfish imbociles who insist on acting that way?

Here in Australia i recall politicians and health officials regularly stating, if people would just social distance, wear masks, and isolate when sick…then they wouldnt have to implement lockdowns to the degree that became necessary. Those imbocile naysayers however, refused to follow a simple rule or two and protracted lockdowns were required…so whose fault is that really?

Personally, i enjoyed the lockdowns…flying my paraglider in clear unpolluted air was a revelation on how bad the smog i our cities really is and how just removing cars and trucks off the roads reduced the amount i could see.

Having said the above…ive gone from earthmover to a bit of a greenie as a result of paragliding…im now very biased when it comes to protecting the environment, however, i am an environmental sinner of the worst kind…

Im a lover of piston engine noise.

I was born with grease and oil on my hands and a roaring engine is music to my ears. Im a slave to v8 turbo diesel engines (my wife has a twin turbo v8 diesel 2019 200 series landcruiser), and i have the 4wding bug since buying a new Jeep gladiator (modified for offroad obviously and which is going to get a supercharger next year) and so mud flying out of those big mud tyres on the jeep and immersing the thing up to the headlights in mud and water is my version of fun these days…i absolutely hate the idea of having to go electric within my lifetime.


That’s quite a heart-felt, reply, Adam! Very few of us among the affluent these days can claim any innocence at all from our more-than-just-willing participation in our transportation power structure as it now still exists. I may not be into the big IC engines as much as you are, but our family just got back from a long day on the road returning from a trip made possible by gasoline. So - whether big or small, Prius or super-truck - either way, we’re sinners just as you say. I once heard a pastor I really respect speculate some years ago that among the sins our generation might be villified for by the far-future (much as we today pass judgment over the acceptance of slavery of generations before us) - might be our assumed need to each individually travel great distances from our home communities in our individualized vehicles just on a whim - no matter how much we trash our environment to do so. I don’t have a crystal ball, but it sounds plausible to me; that we might be regarded as moral monsters just as we would regard a slave-trader of the past today (who, after all, enabled their slave-based economy to maintain qualities of life they had grown attached to, just as we justify our automobile-based economy today.)

Speaking of stuff we’re attached to … (and at least it’s helping you appreciate clean air?) - the paragliding sounds like a whole lot of fun. I used to do a lot of sky-diving back in my more youthful days - and time spent under canopy can, I suppose, be considered a shorter and more lazy form of hang-gliding: a sport I’ve always wanted to do, but never had the time, money, or wherewithal to get into it. Skydiving is much easier, and probably more weather variation tolerant than hang-gliding. But I do know what you mean about the peace of being up there by yourself. I don’t know if or how much paragliding involves an engine, but I suppose the gliding portion of whatever you do must be a great time.


@Adam, Sounds like a lot of fun! My dad and grandpa spoke of the peace up in the air when they had a couple of times (in their life) been allowed to glide back to earth in a glider after being released from a towing plane that took them up high (I can’t remember the term). Dad would talk about that as he helped me make balsa wood gliders. I can just imagine some of that–though I would be terrified up there, too. Thanks.

I suspect those who complained were just as tired of others who dictating restrictions to them, and in retrospect we can see the less restrictive states in the US fared no worse than the excessively restrictive in terms of Covid results.

I like petroleum-based engines too. The 03Cobra name is from my 2003 supercharged Mustang Cobra, which I drove for 17 years. Some of the state governments that were restrictive on Covid are now working to ban those internal combustion engines.

I’ve got a good friend who’s an engineer - but on the side, he loves working on cars, and I think his current pride and joy is a supercharged 2018 Roush 2 Mustang which he takes autocrossing and to other auto shows. (or maybe it’s the older Bullitt he races in the most) But also - he’s slowly restoring a 68 Cougar. He’s got several pet cars that I likely wouldn’t get the details quite right on (I hope he doesn’t see this!) But anyway - he’s got lots of stories about the people he meets and the experiences they have. I’ve got a lot of respect for him and all his skills. We enjoyed watching the “Ford vs. Ferrari” movie together.

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What strikes me as flippant is suggesting we should never impose restrictions on ourselves for the general good. Even more flippant is encouraging an attitude of petty resentment toward any and all loss of personal freedom no matter the cause. Certainly not a very spiritual perspective.


I don’t know anyone who is doing that, although there may be a few people like that.

When a person takes such an all-or-nothing strategy, he is not being sensible.

But locking kids out of in-person school for a year or more is now frequently recognized as a disaster.

I can understand how people resent the outlawing of church services while allowing protests on other matters. That does not appear petty to me.

And firing people from their jobs for not taking an experimental vaccine can generate resentment that I would not classify as “petty.”

I love those late-1960s cars. My first car was a 1966 Ford Fairlane GTA with a 390. It was great.

The best car that I have ever owned is my 2009 Dodge Charger R/T with the small hemi. It has 175,000 miles and still runs like new. Even the leather seats look new.

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I’m curious what level of argument would convince people to give up freedoms?

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Randy, I think you know there are nearly as many answers as there are people.

Don’t you agree?

And doesn’t it depend on the freedom in question?

As long as I’m able to work I don’t care. Maybe this time they will reduce the social handouts and open up more for those who get vaccines. All the rest of my hobbies are outdoors and generally not restricted. Plus it’s hard to police hiking 10 miles out from the nearest house.


What do you mean?

People fight and die for their freedom. It is our God given right. Back in the day it was probably the belief in a lot of places that the king/pharoah/ruler is made in God’s image. Genesis 1 tells me everyone is and was given dominion over the world. We are all made in God’s image and freedom is a divine right and one worth dying for.

Most of us who support freedom believe our freedom ends where another’s begins. We are all for things like speed limits. Should some of them be changed a bit? Probably but the concept is there. No sane person is going to argue for their freedom to get drunk and drive.

That is not what the lockdowns did. They caused immeasurably harm. They also saved some lives. No denying that but they could probably have been done better. One size fits all based on New York? That’s the plan. And anyone who disagreed was immediately shut down and stifled by even people like Fauci and Collin’s. Even on here we saw it with a whole bunch of emotional blackmail. Now they admit they screwed up and caused a whole bunch of collateral damage people were legitimately warning them about.

Forcing people not to go to work? Forcing people to lose their businesses? Allowing the elite and laptoppers to continue to work while forcing all others out of a job is absurd. The lockdowns also screwed over the poor people the most and all our students.

You ask “what level of argument would convince people to give up freedoms”? What freedoms? The freedom to work and provide for my family? The freedom to visit a mother on her deathbed? The freedom to celebrate the birth of my savior with my family? The freedom to bare arms and defend my family against harm? There is NO level of argument that would be convincing there and there shouldn’t be.

There are stumbling blocks that we try to avoid as best we can as Christians. Then there are things that are non-negotiable. We also all know once we give an inch….a mile is what is wanted next.

Two types of people: one type doesn’t like a tv show and they just change the channel. The other type doesn’t like it and tries to cancel it and expects everyone else to change the channel with them as well. If we don’t they resort to emotional blackmail.