I kind of doubt your studies. I have read a lot of dopey studies from respected institutions of ‘higher learning’. I would have to read the ones you are referring to myself of course, but I find much more Biblical literacy among people in churches that teach the Bible and believe it is God’s word than in those that don’t believe it. Of course, Paul does say that there are not many wise by the world’s standards in the church. That is because they are not so proud of their intellect that they think they are too smart for God. They just humbly believe him and God rewards them for it.
I don’t think you have to deny the evidence of your senses. I think you can prove that Christianity is true and the Bible is not only true, but written with the help of the God who created the universe and knows quite a bit about shooting stars.
I think you doubt them because they contradict what you prefer to believe. Most of these studies were conducted by Christians, including evangelicals. I think you might have a view of Biblical literacy which is more like “Whether people agree with me” than actual Biblical literacy. But we can check that. I could ask you some questions about the Bible and you could answer them.
There is nothing wrong with understanding the context that the Bible was written in, but from what I have seen with this ‘context’ idea is that often they forget the biggest context of all. That context would be that the scriptures were written by men who God gave the words to. If you treat it as anything but a historical account, you are missing the obvious meaning of the text.
I only have about 20 more minutes, but ask away.
Hello Bill, personally, I believe there is a difference between God’s inspiration of the Word and His dictation of the Word. Paul writes in three separate instances that he is using his own words, and not God’s. It is quite likely that other authors do the same in other portions of the Bible. I am not suggesting that the Holy Bible is the work of men on their own, but I do believe that it is fallacious to assume that God dictated every word of what is presently in our English version Bibles. II Timothy 3:16-17 teaches that Scripture is God-breathed, but it is human interpretation that assumes that each word is directly dictated.
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Let’s start with an easy one. Who wrote the Pentateuch?
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Moses wrote it.
I think the scripture indicates that every word in the original Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek was given exactly as God wanted it. I don’t think that means the men became robots, God is much smoother than that. He used their personalities to write absolute truth in their words.
P.S. God had Paul write those exact words about what he thought was a direct revelation and what was his opinion on the matter. Since God had him include it, I assume it was a pretty good opinion.
Sorry Jon, but my 20 minutes is up. I will check this site at a later time. I hope you have a nice rest of the evening.
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OK, and why do you think that, given the fact that the Bible never says Moses wrote it?
That’s not what the best Bible scholars would say, even the ones who don’t accept evolution.
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And I would say that the context is better defined in John 1.
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So, because the language God uses doesn’t fit the language man uses, you don’t think that God did it the way he said he did? That sounds rather myopic.
Yes, I do understand how man thinks rain is formed. Not just the water cycle, but the TD of it as well.
Again, I reiterate what I said before.
If God wrote a comprehensive scientific treatise of how things work, it’d be so complex that our brightest minds would spend entire lifetimes, and accomplish no more than write entire notebooks with speculations, thoughts, questions, and get no closer to actually understanding it.
God’s goal was to get humans to know him, so we could be freed from our sin, and that which is destroying us.
As for evolution…
The ONLY reason I don’t believe evolution is true, is because the bible quite succinctly states that God created it, in 6- Yom. From Genesis 1:3 through 1:31, we have 6 days. Not 6 eras, eons, weeks, months, years. 6 Yom. IT went from erev to boker.
I have no idea what happened, and after decades of trying to figure it out… I’ve come to the point where I’m willing to wait until eternity, to have it all explained in the detail proffered in 1 Corinthians 13:12, and Deuteronomy 29:29.
The bible is quite clear in the idea that God SPOKE creation into existence, and Jesus holds it all together.
How he did it… it’s not detailed. But I’ll tell you what, and I say this to everyone who keeps telling me that evolution is the truth—
Build a time machine, and let me know. We’ll get together, travel back to the key periods, and observe creation/evolution take place.
Until then— we’re both in exactly the same boat…
Whom shall we believe?
Do we believe people who are not eye witnesses
or do we believe the only eyewitness?
YHVH?
Personally, I’m weary of placing my trust in people who just don’t know. And believe me when I say that I’ve spent a lifetime giving them the benefit of the doubt, and they offer nothing which shows me they know enough to rely on their ideas.
Jesus said that Moses wrote at least Genesis. History claims there were at least 2-3 writers.
As Jesus said Abraham saw his day and rejoiced, Jesus obviously knew Abe who predates Moses by a few hundred years. As Joshua was Moses’ aide, it wouldn’t surprise me if Josh had a hand in writing it.
Ok.
What do you consider biblical literacy? Someone who actually reads it cover to cover on a regular basis, or someone who has a college education in the bible?
The curious thing is— I’ve had hundreds of discussions with people who claim to be convinced evolution is how all matter and life came into existence.
When I ask them to explain it— they can’t. OR won’t… I’m still not sure which. And when someone does make an attempt to explain it-- they all have completely different descriptions. And none of them match what my 7th grade science teacher taught my 7th grade classmates and I in 1972.
Not only does it appear no one can agree on what it is, it also appears that the definition is constantly in a state of change, and never able to just pick a definition which is consistent.
So, while I agree that it’s easy to say that I don’t understand evolution, which would excuse the claimant from bothering to examine it themselves, and explain a consistent definition, I’m still waiting.
So… please. Don’t pull this excuse with me (that I don’t understand, or haven’t studied it). It only shows me that you are among those who are unable to consistently explain it.
I don’t accept evolution explicitly because of the biblical narrative of creation, and no language which shows it just happened, as some kind of cosmic accident.
I further reject evolution because there is such complexity on earth.
I see creation, from an highly intelligent, and capable mind, who is intimately aware of the complexity, in such a manner as to be able to over-turn such laws when dealing with the miraculous. And, yes I do believe that miracles occur. And have evidence for such.
I ran across an article this afternoon on this issue.
I read someone’s post above that they’re not seeking to convert/convince me that evolution is true. Yet I find the following.
The debate about biological origins continues to be hotly contested within the Christian church. Prominent organizations such as Biologos (USA) and Faraday Institute (UK) insist that Christians must yield to an unassailable scientific consensus in favor of contemporary evolutionary theory and modify traditional biblical ideas about the creation of life accordingly.
The Bible says Moses did write it. It says over and over throughout that the words were the words that Moses spoke to Israel from God. Deut 31:9 says that Moses wrote the law and had the priests keep it. Deut 31;24 says Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished. Many times in the gospels Jesus quotes the Pentateuch and attributes it to Moses’ word and in Mark 12:19 the Jewish leaders say “Moses wrote for us…”. Jesus said in John 5:46 that Moses wrote of him. It says over and over that the law was given by Moses and that he wrote it.