If the detailed post-mortem appearance stories told in Matthew, Luke/Acts, and John are metaphorical or apologetic fiction, that would not prove that the resurrection of Jesus did not occur. It would simply mean that we would be left with the claims of Paul and the Early Creed regarding alleged post-mortem appearances. Would the Early Creed and Paul’s statement “Have I not seen the Christ” be sufficient for you to believe in the historicity of Jesus’ bodily resurrection?
no…
I really don’t know what evidence has to do with a bodily resurrection to a spiritual body. I don’t think this is an objective historical event subject to verification.
And frankly… I am a physicist. What history calls evidence looks pretty flimsy to me in general. And… I struggle to muster much care about whether events of the past happened as people think they do.
Just curious. Why do you worship Jesus as your savior?
The point here is why do you want verification?
Faith does not need verification.
Christianity is based on the resurrection of Christ. you are looking for verification you are looking at the wrong thing. If the resurrection is false Christianity fails. Why would i want Christianity to fail. or be false?
Believe it or not there is logic and reason to Christianity. The theology works. Take away the resurrection and it falls apart.
It is in my interest to believe the resurrection. Having accepted it my faith grew, and so did the benefits of my faith. It has got to the stage where no one on earth can persuade me it did not happen.
There is a logical feedback loop that you cannot see or break, sorry and all that.
Richard
Of course not. So what? Why do you ask these closed questions that cannot touch faith?
Faith. It all feels unquestionably right.
What do you feel that about?
Well… as I said in another thread recently. I didn’t like the person I was becoming and asked for His intervention to change me. And I did change. But that is just desperation not understanding and becoming Christian took a lot longer – especially since I was never one to buy into packages and certainly not one to let anyone tell me what to believe – so it was one doctrinal point at a time. I wasn’t raised in any religion though I did have a bit of exposure to Christianity at various times growing up. Even four years after that desperate prayer, I was trying to understand what the word “God” could possibly refer to.
Here are my reasons for belief in any religious stuff (and how I go from there) and in Christianity in particular.
3 Likes
I do not care why you think this. it is just not true.
I will not be dictated to by anyone on how to interpret Scripture or God, or the Universe. Not you or science. That is my right.
You have the right to your views, You do not have the right to impose them onto me or anyone else, or to tell me what I believe.
Richard
Relax, Richard. Wait until Adam realizes that he’s responding to a question posted and a thread started by an atheist.
1 Like
That is great that your life has improved, but is that proof that your belief system is true? Thousands of people have claimed a dramatic improvement in their lives after conversion to every belief system under the sun:
Nope.
That wasn’t the point.
It was just part of the process, which ultimately includes an understanding of how unreasonable it is to expect proofs. Not even science is based upon proofs but on what are the reasonable conclusions from objective observation. And since life requires subjective participation (quite the opposite) where what you want is hardly irrelevant, expecting proof is frankly unreasonable. It is just about making a choice about who you are and how you want to live your life. Trying to make it about something objective let alone proof is frankly a misuse of religion – where religion starts taking on those dangerous characteristics.
1 Like
Folks who respond to Gary_M are feeding an atheist pigeon. Stop and wait, eventually he’ll go look for food elsewhere. Or if you really enjoy feeding him, go to his blog: Escaping Christian Fundamentalism.
That underlined “here” is Biologos.
2 Likes
Every person in the video I posted above feels FANTASTIC about his or her choice to convert to religion ______________. They all claim that religion X has dramatically changed their lives. Made them better people. Given them hope.
That’s great. But those subjective feelings cannot be used to prove YOUR religion is the one true religion. That is my point.
If religion makes you happy or makes you a better person, great! Just please don’t use those pleasant feelings to denounce the rest of us as “sinners” for next accepting your belief system as fact.
1 Like
agreed.
And uh… please don’t slaughter all us religious people while chanting “religion is a disease” like has been done so much all over the world in the last century.
3 Likes
I don’t think he was ever here to communicate, just to accumulate brownie points for “talking to the enemy”. He’s bought into the YEC view of scripture but rejected YEC.
4 Likes
- Kind of interesting when an atheist needs all Christians to believe that the Bible says the same stuff that they were raised believing that it says, but that they have “declared war” on, don’tcha think.
2 Likes
In all good will possible, I think it kinda shows how inherently we desire comfort and security and ultimately certainty in our beliefs. You can easily swing from one kind of certainty in fundamentalist Christianity to then find “security” in the cold hard truth of materialism and atheism. I think it’s helpful to see a much better middle ground to embrace the mystery of things we can’t be certain about and accept a sense of humility of what the limits of our knowledge and knowing are. Life is so much more inherently messy; there seems exceptions or complications to everything. I think we must be open-minded enough to know that our journey for greater understanding never stops, and when we feel certain in our beliefs, then in those moments we should question if we have become complacent. I think the only thing I want to be certain of is knowing that the continual journey of learning and truth seeking is a worthwhile endeavor.
4 Likes
Here’s a fellow who says: “In my mid forties I married and had children. The responsibility of raising children and the thought that I would determine their spiritual/religious views brought me back to fundamentalist Christianity. I did not want to “lead my children astray”. I did not want to cause my children to go to Hell. I joined the Lutheran Church, Missouri Synod and believed that I had discovered “true” Christianity.”
By my calculation that was roughly 20-25 years ago. That same fellow is now an atheist, seeking “good debates”, and was, for a time, an interlocutor in this forum. Was he on a continual journey of learning and truth seeking while he was here? Gee, I don’t know; let’s ask his kids.
Fundamentalism doesn’t always die — sometimes it just changes jerseys
2 Likes
Not all of us claim that.
In fact, much of your assertions do not relate to the people who are talking to you. I am not convinced that you are actually interacting with us. Instead, it would seem that, you are trying to impose your views onto us. Which would be a little ironic. (if not the H word)
Richard
1 Like
