Would God use a version of Evolution that does not reflect His true Nature (Romans 1)

Where is God in devastating typhoons? Where is God in earthquakes? Where is God in the collisions of stars and galaxies and the evolution of the cosmos? Those are all natural occurrences. So is biological evolution. Which of those is God more involved in, or less?

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Do I believe in God’s providential interventions? Absolutely. Into his children’s lives, in his placing our planet in an unusual place in our galaxy, in his creation of our special moon, its size and placing, in his providential guidance of the evolution of humankind? All of the above.

If you want to talk about the problem of pain and suffering, social inequities, theodicy in general, that is another discussion.

You are unbelievably frustrating. You just divert the topic to include things that are only related in your mind and from your viewpoint.

I do not wish to spend the next 15 posts trying to unravel what I am getting at.

So either stick to the subject in hand or forget it.


You brought up theodicy, unawares, obviously. I can leave you alone with your inarticulate (even to yourself, I think) and incommunicable intuition. How many here aren’t you frustrated with? :upside_down_face:

No I did not. You made that connection not me


You asked where is love in the TOE. The same place it is in the evolution of the cosmos. And earthquakes and typhoons.

I simply cannot believe that God would use such an historical messy process such as that described in the bible in order to bring about the Messiah. What kind of God would do that!?


No, it doesn’t.

Same way it’s reflected in everything else.

They haven’t done any such thing.

Is your claim based on this irresponsible media hyp of a calculation by Gupta based on a peculiar model and a limited set of data? This is not the case with 13.8 billion year estimate by more calculations increasingly refined using more sets of data and a variety of cosmological models. Frankly the more reasonable scientific conclusion is that Gupta’s calculation just proves that his model is incorrect.

They are not connected or similar


On this occasion, easier to drop a blanket message.

They are natural and physical, not spiritual. Evolution is natural and physical. They are very much connected and in the same way and very similar. Sometime, somewhere and maybe more than once, God acted in special providence to make us what we are today and I am not speculating on that, but neither does it affect the ‘godless science of evolution as taught’ any more than God’s providence in all things affect the ‘godless’ sciences of meteorology or geology, ‘as taught’.

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Let’s take both the science and the text of Romans 1 into context, as I put it elsewhere:



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Evolution is simply a process of progressive change. God seems pretty fond of it, as far as I can tell. God’s revelation of himself in canonical Scripture is progressive, sanctification and salvation are progressive rather than instantaneous, Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection rather than the culmination, etc. The fact that God would play the “long game” shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.


That reflects the thought here1

…but he was in somewhat of a (facetious ; - ) hurry, as reflected here:


1 Short excerpt and remark:

Could it be that in imagining a God who has enjoyed and created billions of years of life on Earth that we can begin to see his profound patience with us now?

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Nah. The verse is speaking of God not giving up on the nation of Israel (we would have been consumed), not God giving up on the earth or all of humanity and burning them up with fire.

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So is an elephant. So what!

I am talking about the way they function not their existence.

England is an island and so is Australia and Iceland. By you logic we all speak the same language, and have the same culture, skin colour and Prime Minister!

There is no practical similarity between Meteorology and Gravity let alone TOE except they are studied by science.

Your arguments are irrellevent and diversions.


That is the whole point, Richard. The same physics and chemistry apply to all. You have no legitimate reason to pluck biology out of the rest of science – it has electrons, atoms and molecules that obey the rules of nature that God has instituted, just like everything else.

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No, the whole point is that you think the whole conversation is invalid

So when Paul states in Romans 1

0For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship,

He is conflating scince and theology.

So Paul is wrong. And therefore Scripture is wrong.

Call the police! Complain to the authorities!

Richard is having an illegal conversation!

Or perhaps you should just not get involved in such an illegal activity!

Stop wasting my time!


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Is it just me or does anyone else think this conversation is going round and round in the same circles as this other thread?