This review!
This game was an earth-shattering, life changer for me. 1 round and immediately lost faith in my years of indoctrination in academia. I wish i hadn’t have wasted my time earning a degree when all the answers were in Genesis the whole time!!! Now what will I do with my life now that my career is a sham? Are there any board games on how to become a foreign missonary. I would to get to the uncivilized world before they are corrupted by pseudoscience.
For goodness sake … don’t let the BioLogos officers play this game !!!
The same guy who celebrated the Orlando shooting?
Who could forget Bryan Fischer?
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I’m starting to think the worst creationist argument I have heard all year is that if human genetic diversity is most consistent with a one million year evolutionary time frame, then the Young Earth Creationists are on the right track.
I know, I know… this makes no real sense… and yet this appears to be how one person has implicitly explained why it is not important to explain why the YEC scenario of 6000 years doesn’t need to be explicitly rejected, while all due effort must be made to dismantle Evolutionary scenarios that suggest more than a million years.
It makes even less sense to me now than when I first read the explanation…
I think so, not sure.
Clearly other fruits are poorly designed because they do not have the same features as bananas.
“Genetics debunk evolution”
The banana argument.
“Death before the fall is not in the Bible, therefore, evolution and Christianity are not compatible”
Anything by Ken Ham or Kent Hovind.
“We don’t come from monkeys!”
For me the worst argument is:
“The second law of thermodynamics disproves evolution.”
Reggie…I think I have been around the block on this one – but with YEC people rather than BioLogos. Agreeing to disagree without being disagreeable is a better thing. Ice on Mars — I may have heard that one. Not sure it says much — other than that Mars is quite cold on its surface. So is Chicago at some times of the year!!
As for spherical earth, dinosaurs (if mentioned), and humans turning to dust — let’s just say that we agree with others that the Universe was created, but the details are better known by Someone Else.
As for the Epic of Gilgamesh — this does not work too well in any direction. It was not a well-known tale in its own times — no real contemporary literary refs to it, not copied a lot, etc – and was meant (it seems) mostly for royalty and urban elites of its era. Not so sure we can even say the biblical patriarchs – who passed down the Creation data – were urban elites and knew of the Epic. Its Flood Story, Cedar Forest tales, etc.–came from other Mesopotamian accounts. There was a general belief in the region that some sort of Flood event – an epochal event – had at one time occurred. This is not an argument for or against YEC or Old EC. It just means that ancient Mesopotamia had a lot of floods. And that the Genesis accounts reflect some knowledge of events in the region and of cultural norms. That they then expressed “true” things within the framework of these known events or norms – is not hard to accept
Whoa… wait a sec.
Are you suggesting that the coincidence of congruence between the Sumerian/Akkadian/Babylonian mythological complex and the Bible versions of the same, is not an important observation? Or are you saying that “saying it is unimportant” is your candidate for “worst creationist argument”?
Humanity made from clay;
Humanity warned of a great flood; [Instructions: "… build a boat. These are the measurements of the barque as you shall build her… take up into the boat the seed of all living creatures.” (see Epic of Gilgamesh)
Humanity having its languages confused?
The name “Lady of the Rib” featured in both stories (but in different forms)? [In the ANE version, a goddess is created that cures ribs in pain, the goddess is called Lady Rib. In the Bible, “Lady of the Rib” is made from a rib!]
The plot structure of Enkidu meeting a harlot by an oasis. After the natural-man, Enkidu, discovers his interest in the harlot, the animals who used to run with him no longer respond to Enkidu and bolt away when he comes near.
(see The Epic of Gilgamesh). Once Enkidu loses this innocence, he starts wearing clothes.
The importance of God’s labor for six days and six nights [ The ANE version says the Flood (rather than Creation) was prosecuted around the number Six: ”For six days and six nights the winds blew, torrent and tempest and flood overwhelmed the world, tempest and flood raged together like warring hosts. When the seventh day dawned the storm from the south subsided, the sea grew calm, the flood was stilled.”]
Bibliography
Black, J.A., Cunningham, G., Ebeling, J., Flückiger-Hawker, E., Robson, E., Taylor, J., and Zólyomi, G., The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature (etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk…), Oxford 1998–2006.
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography. Vol. 7. 27 vols. Detroit: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 2008. Gale Virtual Reference Library. Web. 20 Oct. 2010.
Kramer, Samuel Noah. History Begins at Sumer. Garden City, N.Y.: Doubleday / Anchor, 1959. DS 72 .K7.
The Epic Of Gilgamesh, Assyrian International News Agency. Books Online. (www.aina.org…), Mar. 2011.
The Holy Bible, New King James Version. National Publishing Company, 1985
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Ironically, an argument about how few knew the Sumerian/Akkadian myth complex actually works to the advantage of the Sumerian-Centered influence! The argument is not based on the idea that hundreds or thousands of people were conversant with the details of the mythology (though, I don’t know why we should think people didn’t tell their children stories easily understood by children). The argument is based on the idea that at least one Jewish scribe knew the details of the story, and crafted modifications that either wouldn’t be noticed (because of general ignorance of the peasantry), or that wouldn’t be protested (because of the elegance of the replacement story?).
I agree with gbrook9, the biblical flood story definitely has parallels in other ancient near eastern accounts. Personally, I think both Genesis and the Epic of Gilgamesh draw their flood stories from the Epic of Atrahasis. There are lots of convergences of details and the general chronology of the events that outline how the flood happened between the flood stories.
In my understanding, the entire primeval history of Genesis (ch. 1-11) is an allegorical account that reworks ancient near eastern stories and myths and transforms them into a story portraying important motifs about God, creation, and humanity. I think there’s clear evidence that these accounts are allegorical, and intentionally transforming the near eastern myths to make their Israelite audience understand what messages they’re trying to convey. On the third day, God basically says “Let the vegetation grow from the Earth” and the vegetation grows by itself in one day. One problem, plants can’t grow all by themselves in a single day and the Israelite’s know that. In Genesis 7:2-3, in the flood story, God commands Noah to take seven pairs of every clear animal and two pairs of every unclean animal – the problem here is that the list of clean and unclean animals wasn’t revealed until Moses’ time, and the author knew that. These are clear indicators that the primeval history of Genesis is not a literal, but allegorical account that, in essence, tries to set up the relationship between God and man so God’s true, historical account can continue beginning with Abraham.
My point overall was that a BioLogos blog devolving into a list of bwa-hahas at YEC people is hardly helpful. And this is true even if YEC often do same.
As for the EG – yes it was not well known in its time and various scenes were cobbled onto the text as time went on. Supposing that some Jewish scribe somehow came across a tale that was apparently meant for royalty and not of much interest outside of elite circles of that day – is nice but no more verifiable than whether or not there really were mentions of dinosaurs in the biblical text.
That people in a region prone to flooding should have Flood tales – no shock there. In Egypt the story of the gods destroying humanity did not involve a Flood. The authors of the biblical version were setting the record straight, in their opinion, and providing a rebuttal (perhaps) to other versions. A monotheistic deity offended by human sin rather than multiple whiney gods and goddesses who thought we were too noisy to be bothered with any longer–that would be the focus. Thus this does not work for or against YEC ideas
I believe you are misunderstanding the methodology at hand here.
I am not trying to prove how it happened. I am accumulating the sheer weight of coincidences that, as they are aggregated, shift the probability of direct influence from more as low as, say, 1 out of 5 or 20% - - to the probability of diret influence being closer and closer to 100%. Nobody has to “prove” the how. We could surmise the “how” … and add some persuasive contextual clues. But the proof is in the writings … you can’t keep adding unique elements from ANE and expect your audience to continue to agree: “yes, pure chance”.
“Lady of the Rib”
The plot structure of eliminating all humanity via flood.
“6 days and 6 nights”
Confusion of Languages?
Grab this book and read… and bring snacks… because you’ll be reading a long time…
Read the books this book cites…
Google Books link to: Enns book on “The Evolution of Adam: What the Bible Does and Doesn’t Say …”
Thanks for the reference to the book The Evolution of Adam: What the Bible Does and Doesn’t Say about Human Origins. I just checked out what I could of it via Amazon and their excerpted pages. I also watched a few online clips with Enns. Unfortunately his remarks – while interesting, were of a different nature. I tried listening to interviews with critics of his. But there is only so much time at the moment. And yes, I do believe in reading some of the books an author cites as sources. It adds depth to one’s knowledge base.
. I have read Enns before – not this same book – and the title does sound interesting. I will avoid commenting on what he said since I have not read his book. I have read Walton and a few others. I have also read the Epic of Gilgamesh and a few other tales that originated in that part of the world. I cannot say that I have read many (or any, actually) scholars who think the EG had any relationship to or influence upon anything in the book of Genesis–beyond the possibility that all of these varied accounts refer to something that really happened but is recounted differently – if they even grant that… As for-“probability of direct influence being closer and closer to 100%” --Enns will be interesting, and even moreso if he does in fact directly address this issue… Thanks again for the reference.
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