Who would have attended the second Temple and been exposed to the teachings of Second Temple Judaism.
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And would have heard rabbis/scribes debating the ideas of second Temple Judaism all his life.
We tend to forget that they didn’t have newspapers, they had the Torah; they didn’t have magazines, they had the Torah; they didn’t have professional sports, they had the Torah; they didn’t have TV or movies, they had the Torah. According to one of the rabbis I knew in grad school, even a peasant in Galilee would have had forty Psalms, most of the Pentateuch, and over half of Isaiah committed to memory from mere repetition by adulthood, and those who actually studied would have known much more. And when they debated, it was about the Torah; in fact even in gossip the Torah was involved!
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This is futile.
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Time certainly does have meaning, and God can act fast “in the twinkling of an eye” or what we perceive as slow. So Peter is not just saying the same thing in reverse order, he is reversing what he is saying.
The ‘day with the Lord’ corresponds to the ‘thousand years’ in the second instance.
- 2 Pet 3:8 (ESV) But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
How can a day with the Lord be both a thousand years and one thousandth of a day? Well it can be if the days being compared to a day with the Lord are not the same days. He is talking about how a (literal) day and a (creation) day relate to a day with the Lord.
He is not ‘just saying time has no meaning’ … he is saying, ‘don’t overlook’ what he is saying.
- 9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
His perceived slowness is Him waiting for us to repent (turn toward Him) when we have become fed up with trying to do life on our own… when we finally hit rock bottom.
- 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief…
…when we realize that He has already returned. He has been with us this whole time… He is with us on this ‘day of the Lord’… this day that we have been waiting for this whole time is instantly here.
Peter is responding to scoffers who are complaining about when Christ’s return is and how long its been since the creation:
- 4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, 6 and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
This may be talking about the flood of Noah and at the same time may not. The earth formed out of water and through water is the firmament created on Day 2. The early earth that had just barely begun life (4 bya) was then a ‘water world’ about 3 bya. Adam, made of the smallest thing seen ‘dust’, was saved and placed in the garden. The Deep, the chaotic beginning of Earth’s history represents our sin nature from the start. We need to be saved, cleansed, submerged in water (baptized), being born again of water. Noah’s flood was a local flood… and yet there is a flood story in every culture. Being born of water begins first with us individually (repentance and baptism), then expands locally/culturally (Noah’s flood), and finally globally (Water World). The types being in reverse order.
- 7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
Being born of the Spirit (baptism by fire) is happening now, has already happened, and has not yet happened. It happens in the same way individually, locally and globally. Everyone in their own order as there are still people to save, still people that have not even been born that then need to be saved.
- 1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
We still have work to do in the Kingdom of God for the day (of the Lord), a millennium, the next 365 million years. The end comes with the final destruction of the Earth by fire as a whole. Scientific estimates for human extinction and the end of this age ‘heavens and earth which are now’ are a bit varied. Some suggests that could happen in as little as 250 million years when the continents reform into a supercontinent.
They found it would be extremely hot, dry and virtually uninhabitable for humans and mammals, who are not evolved to cope with prolonged exposure to excessive heat.
This doesn’t sound great for the workers that arrive late in the Day, but the good news is that they receive the same inheritance as us (check out the parable of the vineyard workers (Matt 19:27-20:16) … we have a new heavens and a new earth to look forward to!
I believe the time of Christ is the beginning of His kingdom. So, yes, I started there (the end of the 6th day) and worked backwards.
We are made in God’s image through Jesus who is the image of the invisible God.
- Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:
So the 6th day where God makes man in His image is not completed before Christ.
- Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:
Be fruitful and multiply (spread the Gospel), replenish the earth (be baptized, filled with the Holy Spirit), and subdue it (subdue our sinful nature).
- Acts 4:13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. 14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
- Where do you live?
- How old are you?
- What"s your native language?
- How old are you?, and
- What denomination do you belong to?
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We tend to forget that they didn’t have newspapers, they had the Torah; they didn’t have magazines, they had the Torah; they didn’t have professional sports, they had the Torah; they didn’t have TV or movies, they had the Torah. According to one of the rabbis I knew in grad school, even a peasant in Galilee would have had forty Psalms, most of the Pentateuch, and over half of Isaiah committed to memory from mere repetition by adulthood, and those who actually studied would have known much more. And when they debated, it was about the Torah; in fact even in gossip the Torah was involved!
Peter grew up absorbing second-Temple Jewish thought and the Torah even more intensely than American boys grow up absorbing sports and cars – every Jewish boy did. Instead of the evening news with sports results, he heard Torah and second-Temple thought; instead of knowing and recognizing different cars and trucks, he heard Torah and second-Temple thought.
This is evident in his letters.
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So where is Tartaras?
Its evident that his letters are inspired. Peter knew what he was saying but may not have known the full inspiration behind it.
Really?
The most fascinating thing about Peter’s mention of Tartarus is that he makes it a verb, ταρταρόω (tar-ta-RAW-oh), “to Tartarusize” or as is it is generally rendered, “to cast down to Tartarus”.
Tartarus is the Greek equivalent of Sheol, though a bit more nuanced; it is where the Titans – offspring of gods and human women – got locked up after their unsuccessful rebellion. This may be a parallel reference to what in second-Temple Judaism were called the Watchers, high-ranking heavenly beings who rebelled against Yahweh and were imprisoned “in chains of gloomy darkness” (or “bound chained in pits of gloomy darkness”). So Tartarus is a sort of “suburb” of or annex to Sheol, a section for rebel high-ranking ‘angels’ where they await final judgment.
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I’m just curious which copy of Astronomy or National Geographic he’s going pull out to show us where Tartaras is.
This is a distorted and unwarranted concept of inspiration that has been invoked multiple times over the centuries in support of claims of special understanding.
Nothing about inspiration suggests that God took possession of the minds of the writers so that they wrote things they didn’t know about. Given the statement that the writers were “moved by God”, the best model is that inspiration consisted of lifelong guidance and learning so that when the time came to write they brought forth material from their treasures of learning and presented the message in their own terms and modes.
Or “Tartarusized”, to keep the Greek root here.
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Tartarus (Sheol) is an oil well. We now burn the Titans (Dinosaurs) in our carburetors.
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You have absolutely no respect for the text, do you?
Apollodorus has the Hellenistic concept of Tartarus as a distinct part of Hades, which matches the second-Temple Jewish view.
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Its true! I meant oil reservoir though… not the field where the oil rigs are.
Yup, that certainly looks like oil.