I have been wondering as to why some think that God, the Bible, and religion in general are nonsense? (Edit by moderator) I feel part of it is celebrities, atrocities associated with religion, and how one may ask how religion is beneficial in any way. I am all for questioning sources and really thinking about what something or someone says and how said thing should be taken. I also wonder myself if christianity and religion in general is all made up, what I am getting at is how does one determine in so far as what to believe in? I can look high and low but I know it comes down to one’s own decision in the end and frankly I am not sure as to when or how I will know what decision to make.
P.s. sorry I typed so much but any thoughts shared on the matter would be much appreciated!
P.p.s. I can think of one quote that pops up in my mind when this struggle of mine comes up, mostly due to my doubts and I wonder if this guy had the right idea or if he doesn’t know what he is talking about.
“Religion convinced the world that there’s an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there’s 10 things he doesn’t want you to do or else you’ll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! …And he needs money! He’s all powerful, but he can’t handle money!” -George Carlin
The Bible being nonsense is obvious. People are predisposed to literalism and read scripture through a lens of concordism as if it fell from heaven and reflects God’s divine perspective on every issue. When read in this manner, as an encyclopedia of theological facts, a lot of scripture fits into the heading of “BS” to use your terminology. Kangaroos and penguins swimming across vast oceans, tens of thousands of miles, to board an impossibly gigantic wooden ship built by a 600 year old man? A talking snake in a magic garden convincing a couple who didn’t know good or evil to evilly eat a piece of fruit, bringing cancer into the world? Talking asses, living in a fish’s belly for three days and nights? Hercules with good hair slaughtering a thousand men with the jawbone of a donkey?
George Carlin is a comedian. Is a caricature of God meant to promote humor that troubling to you? The problem is there is truth to the caricature. Because there are a lot of literalists. Some Christians think most of the world is going to hell, a place of eternal conscious torment. To be quite frank, its one of the most vile human beliefs ever created and its completely antithetical to everything I believe and love about Jesus. I understand God can’t fit into my own box, I have to conform to Him but eternally tormenting people is a bridge built too far. Bending a knee to that would be out of fear, not love. But even then, Christians don’t believe you end up in hell because you “broke a few rules.” Despite how much I disagree with them, misrepresentation is misrepresentation.
Open up the gospel of Luke and read about Him. Meet Jesus or remeet Him and let the Holy Spirit do the work. Worrying about all the odd things other people believe will only lead you astray. Trying to prove Christianity or defending Jesus from all his pious but profoundly mistaken followers will lead you nowhere. I am a Christian because of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. There is no other reason for me. Worrying about what everyone else believes is an excuse to avoid Jesus I have to reject.
For some of us, the doctrine of accommodation means scripture does contain BS. God allowed the BS of man to be canonized and tried to reach us through it. I have 0 faith in the Bible itself. It is just ink on cellulose, atoms and molecules with no more intrinsic value than any other atoms and molecules. It contains the same errors as other texts and as Dale Martin wrote: “We may trust scripture to provide what we need for our salvation. We may trust that we can read scripture in prayerful hope that God will speak to us through our reading that text. But ultimately this belief—or, perhaps better put, this stance, attitude, or habitus—is actually an expression of our faith not in a text but in God and the holy spirit. We “leave it up to the holy spirit” to protect us from damnable error in our readings of scripture. We depend on God to keep us with God in our readings of scripture. Properly understood, the doctrine of the infallibility of scripture is a statement less about a text and more about God.”
Its only difficult when we bring all of our baggage to Christianity and the Bible. Jesus summarized things very simply for us on how to live. If you are unaware of what he said on that front, I encourage your to read the Gospels and find out for yourself.
Regardless of how silly and interpretation is ultimately faith, even faith in Jesus is going to require faith. It is silly. To believe in a all powerful being that lurks in another dimension thst sends dreams and stuff to people and became a human and died and rose from the dead and left is always going to be silly.
Faith is silly. Someone will have a hard time making it if they don’t realize the absurdity of it all. Faith is faith and it’s not built on evidence but hope.
As a side note it never says Jonah lived. The text seems to imply Jonah died and was resurrected when spat out.
But I agree even though faith is a bit silly there is still some interpretations that are really dumb and goes against what we know from science. Science does not prove or disprove the existence of any god. Science does heavily support evolution and heavily contradicts young earth creationism. I think the Bible within contextual analysis supports genesis 1-11 being a myth. I also believe Sampson was real and was supernaturally strong. Just like I think Peter healed people with his shadow and Jesus came back from the dead. I think Jonah and Joan was fictional tales and yet I also believe a supernaturally empowered donkey talked.
All faith and all interpretations of believers of the Bible is silly.
Not so much that, I guess what bothers me is the hostility against Christianity that stems from his followers who take everything he says as “gospel” to the point were theý will encounter a believer (mostly online) and tell them that their beleifs are bs, and that God is dead, the tooth fairy isn’t real (not sure what the toothfairy has to do with it but i am guessing they are saying the tooth fairy and Santa çlause are about as beleiveable as God) etc. I just don’t see why some go out of their way to make others doubt their beleifs.
Because they are militant atheists (not all are like that) and a person is deluded if they think atheism cannot be turned into a religion. But we have to understand that this is a two way street. I hear cracks against unbelievers at Bible study. A lot of believers also like to push their beliefs on others. They might claim to be peddling Gospel (aka good news) but it often comes off as “Believe these unevidenced and absurd claims like me or suffer in hell for eternity.” That is going to lead to the person being the brunt of jokes, well meaning of not. In the end, we reap not only what we sow, but often what others think we sow.
Not to mention there are some really pushy Christians wanting creation science in schools, that want Christian ideology written into our secular laws and think everyone who disagrees with their interpretation of things is a false teacher disagreeing with God.
If these atheists truly understood Jesus the way I know him, I doubt they would be making such jokes. They are angry at religion. They were probably hurt by it somewhere along the way. What they laugh at is misunderstanding, misrepresentation–a caricature of the truth. Some are also just immature internet trolls In case you haven’t noticed, most of the internet, including social media, is not the most hospitable place for gracious dialogue.
On the simplest level that he loved us, came here to save us and laid down his life for us. He told us: God cares. God loves you. Just follow me.
There are three levels. I have my own Holy Trinity of Jesuses.
The theological Jesus of the the incarnation. God lowering himself to become human. His divine, self-condescension and allowing his Son to be murdered on a Roman Cross just so that we might come to him.
The historical Jesus who faced all the same trials and tribulation we do and more. His selflessness, powerful prayer life willing to lay down his life for us. The human Jesus. His forgiveness, his love, his compassion, his acceptance, the image of God I see reflected in Him. The radical things he said and did.
The transforming and risen Jesus who is alive and is experienced in prayer and thought by his followers through the Holy Spirit.
I compartmentalize them intellectually but all three Jesuses are the one Jesus. Like i said, my own Jesus Triinity.
Agreed and I appreciate you and others here being patient with my questions, I know the answers can seem obvious to some but for some reason or another it takes a little bit longer for me to grasp certain situations and to find understanding in discussions such as these.
So going off topic here, is there a difference between militant atheist and an antitheist? Also the latter statement is often met with something along the lines of “no it can not because atheism is a lack of beleif in god(s) therefore it cannot be a religion” at least that has been my experience.
Not put to me but I would say a militant atheist is always an anti-theist but someone who wishes for an end to religion need not disparage the religious or do anything to speed that end. More often they go together.
I disagree. Anyone who feels they have indisputable evidence for the absence of God holds a belief no more irrational than any religious belief.
Atheism comes in different flavors. Some lack faith, some outright deny, some are agnostic but deny organized religion, etc. One size doesn’t fit all in these discussion.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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Nonsense. We only have indisputable evidence for the absence of God. Nothing in existence, reality, eternal nature, requires Him for a case to have to be made against Him: He explains nothing at infinite superfluous cost.
Absolutely. I have no idea why the idea of creation is so central to so many people’s conception of God. We’re in no position to know that and nothing about the cosmos requires something apart from it to bring it about.
The only justification for God belief that I can find is to be found in our internal nature. So much of the reality of our lived experience is entirely consistent with the perception of an other agency at work. Not in any grand omni-sense of course but in lots of smaller ways that are easily overlooked if one is preoccupied with their deliberate choices in a self conscious way.
It all depends on what one thinks “God” refers to when one stakes out a position on its existence or nonexistent. I think it is something fairly subtle.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
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No other agency is necessary to explain anything about the human condition. The absolute that you agree with applies absolutely.
Indeed. What really is necessary? I find God belief itself far more in need of explaining than it is fit to explain anything. The same can be said of love, wonder and joy. They make no difference to the cosmos. For that matter rationality makes no difference to the cosmos either. Yet they all matter to us and we are parts of that cosmos too.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
21
We are pre-wired for numinous feelings by evolution. The explanation is in plain sight. I have Stendhal’s Syndrome and love it. I’m a total wimp in the face of art, nature, music, drama, stories; just like my fish ancestors I’m sure.