Hi, Cnalleyjr; I’ll chime in here and also welcome you to the forum - and also share this tip.
You’ve been posting images of scripture passages which makes it hard for people to extract quotes and construct replies (not to mention some of them are an unwieldy size). You can easily find scriptural text to copy and paste (as text) from sites such as Biblegateway.com which has many versions to choose from (though not perhaps the one you’ve been using.)
Also, feel free to narrow down the passages to specific verses you are putting forward as key. Shorter posts tend to attract more reading than long blocks of pasted text.
But in any case, thanks for sharing your thoughts and joining the conversation.
No. Biblegateway doesn’t have the new world translation but I found a Jehovah Witnesses site pretty easily where you can search, cut, and paste from their rewritten version of the Bible.
Judging by what I’ve seen, Jesus, according to the idea of the hypostatic Union, had two natures, divine and human. The human part (supposedly) was the part that died
Though I am not a Christian, I could only be a trinitarian if I was. One is hermeneutical lay bound to interpret John 1:3, Colossians 1:16 and other verses in a trinitarian way if they want to avoid polytheism, and contradiction of Genesis 1
In addition to what @Mervin_Bitikofer says about quotes, please tell us where these quotes come from. The bibles that I look at say nothing of God sending His Son a sacrifice. As I said, the practice of blood sacrifice is pagan idol worship and not Christian.
I’m almost scared to ask, but what Bible are you reading that doesn’t describe Jesus being offered as a blood sacrifice?
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.(Matt 26:28 NIV)
God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—(Rom 3:25 NIV)
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!(Rom 5:9 NIV)
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace(Eph 1:7 NIV)
just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.(Eph 5:2 NIV)
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.(Col 1:20 NIV)
Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.(Heb 7:27 NIV)
Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus,(Heb 10:19 NIV)
But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.(Heb 9:26 NIV)
And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.(Heb 10:10 NIV)
For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.(1 Pet 1:18–19 NIV)
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.(1 John 1:7 NIV)
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.(1 John 2:2 NIV)
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,(Rev 1:5 NIV)
And they sang a new song: ¶ “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. (Rev 5:9 NIV)
The topic of this blog is "Why did God become man?’ Because you used the Jehovah’s Witnesses Bible it would appear that you are one. However it is my understanding that JWs do not believe that Jesus is God. I know that they do not accept the Trinity. Am I mistaken?
So do you believe that Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God?
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (Logos,) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Right or wrong?
Their Bible version (NWT) of John 1:1 is as follows…
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
This is to better fit the Arianism teaching that Jesus was god-like created being – the first creation of God. But, truth be told, even their altered version of John 1:1 doesn’t really agree with this.
It seems I may be the lone Catholic here… but where does the woman, the Mother of God fit into the plan?
And, this curious scripture has always intrigued me: Gen 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.
I’ve always wondered if God the Father shared in culpability by putting the tree in the garden, in front of Adam & Eve? Thus the Lord accepting His part in revealing the ugly truth. As bad as Evil is, it’s still part of the Truth! And the last part of the above scripture (Gen 3:22) seems to point to Jesus on the cross, and the “Bread of Life”?
Did we steal from God in the Garden? Was the Tree of Knowledge God’s knowledge? And He was trying to protect us? Interesting concept?
It also seems obvious that ONLY God could reverse His curse on man of, sin and death: “but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” We had no way to redeem ourselves, or take back what we did. And we’ll sin again and again, and AGAIN! We can’t be PERFECT! We “know” too much!!!
But we can Love. And we can repent. And we can, “eat of the tree of Life”, and live again! Amen
He didn’t sacrifice himself in a burnt offering sense, satan tested him, and even went as far as putting him to death, unjustly. This doomed satan and all his demons to death. God resurrected his son because his son was faithful under test, and torture. He exalted him to a superior position for his obedience, and gave him the name above all.
I’m pretty close to certain that you aren’t even close to being the only Catholic in this forum - though in this particular thread - I can’t say. But even if you were, you wouldn’t be any less welcomed for it! Thanks for sharing your questions, and welcome to the forum!
While it’s true that protestants don’t generally exalt Mary to the same extent that Catholics do, I don’t think any of us in our more sober reflections [in other words, when we haven’t busied ourselves - going out of our way just to be anti-Catholic] would deny the special place she has in scriptures as the mother of our Lord. The Magnificat has always been a special passage to me, revealing the prophetic prowess and connection that helps reveal the larger arc of God’s justice reaching back through the trouble-ridden pages of the old testament.
You raise good questions worth reflecting on. Feel free to cast such light on them as you have been given too.
Hi Mervin, and thank you for the welcome. Yes, I meant being the only RC in this discussion. Hopefully, my fellow Catholics are very active and prolific in the faith here. I have many, many Protestant friends that I, most of the time, enjoy exchanging ideas with.
The Magnificat is a wonderful praise to our Lord! An interesting read is: Five for Sorrow , Ten for Joy : Meditations on the Rosary, written by the late [J. Neville Ward] a Methodist Chaplain in London. Intercession of Mary started with the Wedding at Cana! And continues today, with her words; “do what He tells you.” Amen
Thank you for your encouragement! I have many questions and revelations that I still don’t understand. But, I constantly thank our Lord for giving and guiding me through all. And I am thanking Him now, and also member (Mark D.) for bringing me here to your very fine forum. I hope and pray to receive, be enlightened and filled with the Holy Spirit! And to contribute something worthwhile here. Amen
Elaborating on our Lord’s “journey in flesh”… It seems evident that “the curse of God” (death = the wages of sin) could only be broken, when someone (Jesus) suffered death, without sin. Meaning: “death” had no more exclusivity to sin! Yes, we still die. But now, we can have eternal life by eating from the tree of Life: Jesus on the cross. Praise the Lord.
As a side note, I’ve always fantasized that the serpent’s own words ("…you will be like God") in the Garden would strangle him at the very end of time. And satan unwittingly says what turns out to be the Truth (…as He shared in our humanity, we will share in His divinity, thru the Holy Spirit)!
Sort of like water on the wicked witch of oz… i.e. dying from an unlikely source! In satan’s case his own words!
I like your ambition! And it is a high bar you set. Keep in mind that our forum community here is open to all regardless of spiritual, scientific, or scholarly standing. So naturally we get many different walks and perspectives here - some fitting well with Biologos’ mission and others in opposition (or as a proposed corrective) to it. All voices are heard and allowed so long as they don’t egregiously violate our participation guidelines.
All that is to say … keep your critical glasses on as you read here. It isn’t your local Sunday school so much as it is a “secular” square with a disproportionately sizable presence of religious and scientific thinkers.
Welcome, @ronedee. Ron, I think one reason we don’t see as too many Catholics here, is that the Catholic Church does not have the same deep division over evolution as the evangelicals, thus not as much angst. I look forward to hearing your insights.
Hopefully, my demonstrative style of Faith isn’t a distraction, or negative in anyway? I’m not an evangelist.
As a side note, my father is an atheist. As well as my nine children. My brother is agnostic. We all still get along and love each other just fine! I’ll try to show the same respect and love to others here as well.
As far back as the Apostolic Fathers, the Church embraced the communication of attributes to refer to the way in which we can say things about Christ’s person. Keep in mind, even the notion of Trinity was a struggle. Early Christians wrestled - only God is to be worshiped, Jesus is worthy of worship, how can this be? It took centuries for much of this to find a formal voice, to matrix the Scriptures and teachings.
Phrases like “God’s blood”, “God’s suffering”, “God’s death” and “God’s resurrection” did not sit well with Arians, Nestorians, Apollonarians, Platonists, and followers of Tertullian. At Ephesus, the Church partially settled the argument in that it is proper to refer to Mary as Theotokos, “God bearer”, often stated as “Mother of God.” God has no parent but Jesus is God and he has a mother. At Chalcedon, they lent further clarity to the hypostatic union - whatever we can say about Christ’s human nature, we can also say about His person. Whatever we can say about His divine nature, we can also say about His person.
In the person of Christ, God lived among us (John 1), experienced our existence, our pain, our separation from God, friendships, love, loss, testing, eating drinking, celebrating. God chose the person of Christ as the means through which He reconciled Himself to us. Wherever Jesus suffered, the person of Christ suffered. On the cross, the person of Christ died. If Christ had not died, he could not be resurrected. That’s built into the argument of 1 Corinthians 15.
We crucified Jesus. Our sin put him on the cross, his love for us held him there. He bore the pain of OUR sin, not just the pain of torture from contemporaries. Satan has no such power to kill Christ or any of us. His power is deception, lies, temptation. Jesus is God and God cannot fall to temptation. God does not have to prove Himself to Himself.
You’re right, God does not have to prove himself to himself. But his son had to remain obedient even to death. That is why Christ’s death is so special, He took the place of Adam. If you read the Scriptures the Bible makes perfect sense.God created earth to be inhabited, and he created humans in his image and death would only enter the equation if they disobeyed and we know how that ended. God foretold The coming of the seed that would crush the head of the serpent. The seed was his first born, through whom and for whom everything was created.He transferred the life of his first born into the womb of Mary. Since a perfect man sinned against God, A sinless perfect man needed to die To rescue mankind from death. Jesus accomplished what no man could, remaining obedient to his father and his God even to death. Satan’s charge is no man can remain faithful and love God willfully… Jesus proved him wrong and now Jesus has been exalted above all (except the One who exalted him) an he will bring satan to ruin when he returns. See? Simple.