Why All Christians Should Heed Pope Francis’ Call to “Care for Our Common Home” | The BioLogos Forum

Eddie, the raw data is out there and is unequivocal. Yes, there is year-to-year variation, and some groups jump on this variation to claim “leveling off”. But no serious scientist expects a monotonic rise in annual temperature, given the vast complexity of the system, with unpredictable volcanoes, etc.

I’ve already agreed with you that some scientists exaggerate the degree of certainty about the role of CO2 in the warming. Yes, some have even acted unprofessionally. And I’ll answer a blanket “YES” to all your questions of the form “Surely you are aware that…” But I’ll repeat, there has been much greater dishonesty on the other side, with much bigger financial interests backing it. You seem to selectively ignore that. Surely you are aware of the activities of the Koch Bros and Heartland Institute?

I think there is good reason to use the label “denier” for the many people who deny the fact of global warming (I would not use that label for those who, like you, accept the rise in temp but doubt the importance of anthropogenic CO2). Your sympathy for the underdog should not give people a pass to deny reality. These are often the same people who deny common descent and an old earth, almost always for purely ideological reasons and against vast quantities of evidence from multiple, independent lines of reasoning. Thankfully, over the last five years or so the number of people who deny the existence of global warming is dropping to insignificance. I agree it is still healthy to argue about the exact role of anthropogenic CO2 in that rise.

I strongly disagree with you that “tone” should be the deciding point in any of these arguments. There are people who exaggerate on both sides. The data is what matters.

Hi Mervin. Sorry for the delay but I just got back on here. I really appreciate your comments and point of view. I agree with most of what you wrote. I also do all that I can to protect our environment, conserve energy, and pollute as least as possible. Though, like you imply, non of us are perfect. I have a big truck and will not give it up.
That said, I also appreciate your Anabaptist faith. I have two kids who are in their twenties now and did not baptize then as young children. I waited and let them choose to be baptised, which they did. That said, my daughter’s view’s of life are in line with the socialist, globalist, (dare I say) atheist views of the world. Though she is spiritual, it has become very difficult to debate with her.
I am very suspicious of the “cajoling” we face with world leaders we have to accept a radical change in the world and in our personal lives, in order to “save the planet”. This planet is too big for us to really destroy. We may be able to make it uncomfortable for us to live as we have, but we cannot destroy it unless they unleash the nukes. In fact, the Pope has even said we are in WWIII, but in some kind of slow motion.
I have looked at the data from NASA. In fact, I worked for NASA at JPL in Pasadena for many years. Have had great debates with engineers and scientists there. My problem comes from the interpretation of the raw data and the resistance to any kind of scientific skepticism. As you note, the politicians and media just run with the hype and alarmism.
So, I have a new scientific discovery for you that I just saw today. You are probably familiar with the solar cycle.

Would love to know what they are going to think of this at the next global warming summit. Probably conspire to find a way of dismissing it. But it is funny, this comes from NASA too.
I have another one for you. Speaking of conspiracy, I hope that this won’t be dismissed as conspiracy theory just because of the source. If any of you believe in the Bible, Revelation, Daniel, the “end times”, then I would hope that you would watch/listen to the whole video, with a skeptical ear and grain of salt, of course. But it really hits home given everything that is going on in our world and the way that the Pope is acting.
http://www.infowars.com/special-report-pope-francis-is-a-vatican-coup/
Best regards and God bless.

Well said JohnZ. I couldn’t agree more.

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Christy, do you even know to what thread you are posting. This is a discussion about the Pope’s encyclical, in particular about the global warming hype and the Pope’s call for a stronger world government to control what some people believe to be our burden on the planet. Of course population control is a part of that but birth control was not part of the discussion. Are you trying to promote an agenda? How did birth control work out for China (with the 1 child only law)?
But of course the communist government is the best way to combat our human exploitation of Earth, right?

What does that even mean?

Loujost and Christy, sorry, maybe I missed the discussion about birth control. I have an idea, DON’T HAVE SO MANY BABIES THAT YOU CAN’T FEED! Can people have no common sense?

Really? The UN doesn’t agree that this population growth is “sustainable”. Hypocracy? As I replied to an earlier post, why would one have more kids than one can feed? So does that mean that we need to feed their children because of their irresponsibility? Sounds like Greece with the EU.

@climateskeptic

My comments were aimed at the West preaching to others when in fact the West has either (or both) been part of the problems of sustainability and environmental degradation, and yet still aims to avoid accepting our role in this on a global scale. No-one advocates your view that people should have kids to ensure many of them starve - this is bizarre. What is also clear however, is a great deal of land that can produce food is not used for this because of the low prices farmers would get. Perhaps this discussion would benefit from some details regarding available land that would be used for food production, costs to distribute this food nationally and internationally, and from there form a rational view on this complicated subject.

I cannot see where Greece comes into this, but it was a decade of two ago when the EU subsidised its farmers who produced far more food then was needed, and yet they could not sell it globally, and so they let it rot. This is a clear and factual case that calls for a rethink on food production and distribution.

Tell that to a poor woman with no access to birth control, whose husband wants sex.

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@climateskeptic
I know, I know, if everyone was just smart and hardworking like us, there would be no poverty in the world, right?

In many poor communities, alcohol abuse among men is common. That makes “natural family planning” much more difficult as it requires a man to abstain from sex during fertile times. Drunk men generally just don’t care much about the calendar.

I don’t have any agenda other than compassion for women in difficult situations. I work in a village where boys and girls commonly marry at 12 years old. They also practice a bride price system, where girls as young as nine can be sold to older men as a second wife. It is common for a woman to have ten to fifteen children. Infant and maternal mortality rates are high. This is supposedly a Catholic community, though it is a very syncretistic form of Catholicism. If the RCC advocated responsible use of contraceptives among married couples, I think it would make a big positive difference.

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There is a huge difference between arguing for government mandated population control (which leads to human rights abuses) and arguing for increased access to contraceptives for married women in third world contexts where the RCC has significant sway. If you can’t see the difference, you have totally failed to grasp the context of the discussion. And if you really think that family size is just a matter of common sense, you should take an anthropology class. You are totally ignoring the role of culture in shaping people’s ideas of what makes sense.

Anyway, I mostly agree with those who are noting that shifting blame for environmental harm to poor people who have large families is often a redirection of the conversation by those who want to avoid talking about the unsustainable consumption levels of first world nations. It is not a helpful tangent. The only reason it came up was because we are talking about the Pope’s ideas on combating climate change, and obviously as a Roman Catholic, promoting contraceptive use in areas where population growth is a problem is not part of his plan, which is unfortunate.

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That is not what I wrote or even implied.

In fact I was stating the opposite.People should NOT have kids when they aren’t able to feed them. They may be uneducated but this is common sense. Historically, natives have been good at living off the land. Maybe we agree that we (the west, “developed countries”) shouldn’t be pushing our ways on them. Though I would also agree that we should, at least try to, help where we can. My problem comes from people pushing a strong world government from an excuse of, well, we need to control global warming, or, we need to somehow equalize everyone in the world and redistribute the wealth. i don’t know if this is what you are advocating.

@climateskeptic

We can all agree that we as people should make sensible decisions, especially regarding our families, but these questions can become very complicated and simple comments may obscure the discussion. While we agree that the West should help, I am advocating a view that begins with the West acknowledging our part in creating a number of the problems that now impact on a global scale. I am also suggesting that developing nations may have the opportunity (if they can take a hold of it) of learning from the West’s mistakes, and also from the solutions developed by the West - this would require cultural shifts in both developed and developing nations. I also agree with you that a ‘world government’ (whatever that means) is not the solution. But re-educating people and changing institutions to achieve goals that are in everyone’s interests, is part of the solution.

I finally had the time to go back and catch up (well, still trying to catch up) on this thread. I read this and couldn’t agree more with Eddie. Had to re-post the whole thing because it is so well thought-out and written. Thank you for expressing my views so well.
I wondered how the discussion had gone from global warming to population control and third-world contraceptives. Then I got to your last paragraph. Again, well thought and written, and of course, the pope’s encyclical did include this topic.
I don’t know what the solution is. But I agree with the pope that the muslim jihad is a major problem that must be dealt with. People being slaughtered would seem a much bigger problem than contraceptives. But maybe it is all part of the equation. Our president is doing almost nothing about it. In fact, pulling all troops out of Iraq and training Syrian opposition, which some say morphed into ISIS, may have caused this serious problem and threat to all Christians (and even non-Christians).
My point is, there is so much crazy crap going on in the world and the masses don’t even know what is going on. If the media tells them enough times that global warming is a real threat, and they need to give up their freedoms in order to combat it, they will. That is sad. But they are distracted by non-real crises (like racism and gay rights), “reality” TV, social media, sports, movies, games etc…, that they have no clue what is really going on.
The Builderburgs had a meeting right before the G6 summit. Of, course nobody knows about it because there was no mention of it on mainstream media. Greece has collapsed due to uncontrolled socialism. Does anybody really care. U.S. debt is out of control. But instead of dealing with huge influxes of illegal immigrants we need to be politically correct and not call them illegal (maybe that’s another distraction). But there is definitely a global movement to encourage mass migration and population control. The US is going down, much like Europe (after Greece). There is no more moral character or financial discipline in our government. I fell sad for our children and their children.

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Nice graphics on that site. But 2014 being the “hottest” since 1890 (or whatever) has been disputed, and is marginal at best. It was widely believed that there has been no real increase in the global average for 18 years. That is until NOAA adjusted it’s numbers. I would be nice to have some kind of independent study on the raw data. Not just the massaged output of that data.
Sorry, I know you said you didn’t want to debate global warming. But then you went on to support the concept.

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Exactly my point. Socialism destroyed Greece and it will destroy US.

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