When will Jesus Return?

Absolutely, I think this is up for debate. From my own amillennial perspective I would say that the return of Jesus and the arrival of the New Creation/Heaven on Earth are part of the same event. However, I’ll concede that others may view it differently, which is no problem at all.

What I am suggesting is that the New Testament promises a physical resurrection of the dead at some point as part of what is commonly referred to as the last days.

Just saying the chapter you are saying posing the serious problems…. Is the very chapter that is what convinced me of full preterism. If that chapter did not exist, I would never have been able to stick with preterism. That chapter is what was the one that was so overwhelming convincing to me that it’s a spiritual resurrection and not a physical resurrection. That a bodily resurrection is of a new flesh, a new creation, a spiritual one.

  • I must be the only person in the whole world who believes that a spiritual body is just as physical and natural as a body of flesh and blood, but a spiritual body can pass through walls, whereas a flesh and blood body has to go through a door way or window, … even if it’s dead.
  • Question: Was the stone at Jesus’ tomb “rolled away” on Easter morning so that Jesus could get out or so that his disciples could get in?
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Another verse where Paul affirms the judgment is about to take place.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/2_timothy/4-1.htm

At his appearing and his kingdom. Are his appearing and his parousia the same event? Is the coming of Christ’s kingdom still future? Some think so. Others think he is reigning now and of his kingdom there will be no end.

So many of these things are so interwoven that it is hard to separate them. I arrived at the conclusion that they should not be separated and that’s why I consider myself a full preterist.

I’m wonder how many items people here can list that are relevant to when Jesus was to return.

Here’s a start:

the coming of the son of man
the resurrection
the judgment
the kingdom of God
the kingdom of heaven
the end of the age
the age to come
new creation / new heaven and earth

It was so the angels could get in. :slight_smile:

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Many theologians would reply to this by saying that it is now but not yet. Are you familiar with the concept of inaugurated eschatology? These are the last days, but not the last day. The Kindom is here in part, but not in fullness. Christ is reigning, but his reign is not yet undisputed.

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This is a good point. I think most Christians believe that when we die we go directly to heaven. If that is the case, what changed?

You asked and I explained what her view is. I do like how these commentaries are more interested in explaining what God might be teaching us through the book… like I said elsewhere, Moses knew the Lord :wink: there are still some things the most ‘liberal’ reading of Scripture can differentiate about what God is and is not doing currently

Most assuredly.

It was true before AD 70. But it’s not true now. :slight_smile:

Did you mean to write, these are the last days, but they are not the last days? j/k

The first Christians were living in the last days. Do we agree on that? The last days of what?

And just to be clear, I don’t dispute a resurrection and judgment. I just believe they were past. In what sense they were “physical” events, if in any sense they were “physical,” I could not tell you.

I do believe in the bodily resurrection of Jesus. That may be the only orthodox thing about me, lol!

I am sorry but there is still too much evil in the world for Christ to be reigning at all, let alone in part. I, for one, could not pinpoint a time when things have changed.

Some consider WW1 as the start of the hundred years but most consider that we have not seen the really dramatic stuff promised. Maybe if we had either an asteroid collision or a very near miss that might trigger something.

All in all reality check would indicate the world continuing n its merry way as it has done for millennia.

Richard

The Apostles’ creed includes ‘the resurrection of the body’ (carnis resurrectionem). This shows that the belief in the resurrection of the body was included among core teachings. I do not know if the letters of Paul lead to this decision or did both (Paul & Apostles’ creed) take their teaching from earlier scriptures or tradition. Anyhow, it seems evident that the early Christians believed in resurrection in a bodily form, like the resurrection body of Jesus. Other interpretations are less credible.

Sure, in a sense, the kingdom is now and not yet.

Whereas Peter was very optimistic about the last days given the fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy, Paul reminds Timothy in the last days unrighteousness will be a perpetual reminder… (that we’re not there yet?)

I don’t know how much of the descriptions is symbolic but yes, I believe Jesus will return in a visible form.

How many will see the coming is something I don’t know but today we have technology to spread any video globally. If resurrected believers are coming with Jesus, the return will certainly be breaking news anywhere on the globe.

This is not a problem if we interpret that there will be a millennial kingdom after the return of Jesus. What Isaiah wrote would describe life during that period, between the return of Jesus and the eternal judgement.

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This was Molly Worthen’s take from a deep dive in NT Wright’s scholarship. I think Bauckham’s was also influential for her.

Unfortunately, it’s very common for those other interpretations to be seen as (equally) credible by someone like Worthen before her conversion.

Not sure how much weight should be put on the word physical. I found one use of the word in the NAS and it is contrasted against the sort of life Christ has.

“Physical indestructable” may be an oxymoron.

Yes, I further asked how she squares that view within evangelicalism. I am genuinely curious because it is a tough question.

Christ reigns in my heart but to claim he reigns in the world just seems to completely defy all evidence.That is a precarious tightrope…balancing the fallen and sin nature of the world with Jesus reigning. I don’t see it. The world is still broken but it has a fix.

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That is similar to my take as well. We know that there are more dimensions than the four spacetime ones we experience, so additional ‘spiritual’ ones fit that explanation.

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You just said (:slightly_smiling_face:) he was reigning in your heart, so “The Kingdom is here in part…” We also know and have evidence that he reigns providentially in the lives of his children.

  • “Tweet! Foul!”
  • The Greek says “7:16 ὃς οὐ κατὰ νόμον ἐντολῆς σαρκίκης γέγονεν ἀλλὰ κατὰ δύναμιν ζωῆς ἀκαταλύτου”.
  • “σαρκίκης” has to do with “flesh and blood”, the body in this world, i.e. genetics.