Whatever Happened to this Wager?


(George Brooks) #1

Below is a discussion, and a wager, regarding BioLogos being able to state that God Guided evolution!

It was written by Uncommon Descent’s, O’Leary/Laszlo. @Eddie, do you know if anything came of this wager?

[QUOTE]
… Not all proponents of TE/EC regard science as having an “inability” to “measure” the guiding of evolution. Indeed, not all of them agree that evolution was guided, or that God knew what the results of evolution would be. Some, like Stephen Barr, hold this. Others are silent on the question. Biologos has certainly entertained the notion that God had zero idea what would evolve in this universe (even if He, I suppose, really hoped He’d get certain results.) Hence so much emphasis on God granting nature “Freedom”, aka, “the ability to develop in ways not even God foresaw, much less planned or guided”.

Are you telling me that Biologos unequivocally is committed to the idea – even with the qualifications that science cannot demonstrate this, even if this is taken as either the stuff of philosophical inference, even if this is taken purely as revealed Christian teaching – that God knew the results of evolution in advance, and chose said results? That God guided evolution?

If so, would you care to make a friendly wager?

Darrel Falk is the President of Biologos. A contact email for him is prominently displayed on the Biologos website. You can email him, or contact him in a thread, and ask, “Does Biologos unequivocally affirm that God knew and chose the outcomes of evolution, and that God guided the process towards particular ends known in advance, even though science is silent on this issue?”

If Falk says yes – if he clearly affirms this, rather than punts to something like “We affirm God is the creator, but God granted Nature some freedom, who’s to say how much, this is a difficult question, I can’t give you a straight answer” – I’ll write a post up on this site not only reporting on his affirmation, but praising both him and Biologos straight up for (finally!) boldly taking such a stand.

If Falk says no, or if he punts, you concede that Biologos’ position on these matters is problematic and could reasonably merit criticism from orthodox Christians, whether YECs, OECS, TEs, or Christian ID proponents.

Two fair warnings: one, this is a win-win for me, because I’d be delighted at Biologos taking that position (if they could stand up to the hell they’d catch in the inevitable aftermath). And I suppose I’d take some small pleasure from having an apparent defender of Biologos concede to the very real problems with their approach.
[END OF QUOTE]

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/biologos-claims-not-to-be-darwinist-after-all-and-its-not-april-1-either/


#2

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(George Brooks) #3

@Eddie,

You are a very poor sport … this is the very essence of your challenges to BioLogos… and you act like you don’t give a fig for how its outcome played out.

Just some more evidence that you hunt us like prey here at BioLogos, instead of trying to advance the BioLogos mission.


#4

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(George Brooks) #5

That’s my intention… @Eddie, hunter of souls.


#6

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(George Brooks) #7

@Eddie,

I think the reason is pretty clear why I don’t do those things. Because it doesn’t bother me like it bothers you!!!

You worry your prey like a terrier! Why would any BioLogos person, promoting “Big Tent Ideas” want to descend into a fighting pit with you?

I will investigate this one… because it has the benefit of elapsed time … but I don’t plan on making a habit of it!


#8

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(Andrew M. Wolfe) #9

That’s “DR. Eddie, PhD, hunter of souls” to you, buddy.


(Andrew M. Wolfe) #10

(… he comments, immediately after posting elsewhere about the need for less snark and more grace in BioLogos Forum comments :slight_smile: )


(Jay Nelsestuen) #11

moar snark…pls…


(Brad Kramer) #12

I’ll file this discussion under “some people have too much free time on their hands”. Find something else to do than bug each other about topics that have already been discussed ad nauseum.


(Brad Kramer) #13