Angels are non-physical, aka spiritual - in every way. It is Dale who is suggesting they are physical in some other dimension.
No, I insist that the soul is nonexistent. There is no such thing as a magical thingie inserted into bodies to make them alive or anything moving around from body to body. There is only the spirit created by our choices and imperishable according to Paul.
Incorrect. It is the whole point of Christianity that we can never qualify and immortality is not what we are aiming for anyway. What we hope for is eternal life in a relationship with God – that is an eternal existence which is worthwhile. Others are promised an eternal existence which is considerably less than desirable.
It is only a discussion about the nature of reality which is metaphysical.
I am going to have to agree with @mitchellmckain on that one. We never qualify – it’s a gift. The relationship is what it’s all about, and the joy in communion with family (and Family). But it starts here – I am already adopted and already experiencing existential joy and delight in God, and in what I have been given and am still being given – it’s not just my future secure hope.
Nope. That buys into false premises that the spiritual is less real, ephemeral, shadowy, mental, unsubstantial, intangible, transparent, invisible, etc… What we know for certain from the Bible 1 Cor 15 is that the spiritual (when alive or resurrected) is imperishable, more powerful, made of the stuff of heaven, and (at least in our case) comes after the physical. When the spirit is dead. however, it can be shadowy, ghostly and such. But when alive (connected with God), the spiritual is more real and capable in every way and it is the physical which is less real by comparison – a temporary coordination of particles like the way images on a tv screen is a coordination of pixels.
Yes. Life is more than just existence. Life is growth and learning. The physical universe is quite big and promises a considerable amount of growth and learning. But once our connection with the physical ends then we need a relationship with the infinite creator of the universe. Then with no end to what God has to give, growth and learning – life not just existence – can continue forever.
Because God has given us so much in the physical universe, many experience life to the fullest already – exploring all the opportunities already available to us. We all have self destructive habits, but not all in the same measure. And so while for some all seems great and they see no need for God, for others the value of life drains away much more quickly, more desperately needing a connection with God to even make it through the day. For others it may simply be misfortune that tips the balance. But regardless of fortune, in the end, it is like the law gravity, where everything comes down eventually – call it the law of sin if you like. And so our need for God is twofold – not only because He is the source of life, but because He is the only one who can remove our sins (something which is not possible without our cooperation).
Once again: Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Meaning that it can happen you meet a stranger with a need who in reality is an angel while you are not aware of it. You are not aware because the angel looks exactly like a human.
Paul seems to have a different way of describing souls and their mortality - -
or should I say, their IMMORTALITY?
1Co 15:41-42
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars:
for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:44-47
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made
a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not
first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is
spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the
Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:50-53
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We
shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of
an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be
raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put
on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Paul is quite clear that what he talking about in 1 Cor 15 is resurrection not souls.
35 But some one will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?”
He goes to great pains in explaining that we are raised not in a physical/natural body but a spiritual body, imperishable, powerful, and made of the stuff of heaven and not of dust or the Earth. And he stresses quite a few times that the physical comes first and is like a seed from which the spiritual body grows.
But it is not just Paul who thinks this way about the resurrection. Peter says much the same thing about Jesus’ resurrection.
For Christ died for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually (1 Peter 3:18)
Didn’t you used to say that there can be no soul without a body?
Or are you saying that because Paul used the phrase “spiritual body”, you somehow
think your conditions have been met … that there is a BODY? I would have to object
for the obvious reason that a “spiritual body” is not the same as “a body”.
Well of course, I continue to learn. And that quote from Peter is an example of something I came across just recently.
But mostly this is your understanding of my belief which is evolving.
I don’t believe that “the soul” is really a Biblical concept, especially not as this thing which is inserted into bodies or moving from one to another. I have always believed in the spirit which is created by the choices of our physical life, which continue to exist eternally afterwards.
Nope. Even when it is the spirit, we have the cases of the angels and God where there was no physical body. So it is not that the spirit cannot exist without a body but that we are different from self-existent God and created angels in that we create our own spirit by the choices we make.
Paul says that the physical/natural body is first and is like a seed from which the spiritual body grows.
I think you would have saved lots of people a lot of time if you had STARTED with
this idea. It’s not particularly controversial, though the Roman Catholics would
probably be willing to spend a thousand postings on refuting your opinion. They
are rather keen on souls being pre-existent, and just transported to a nice meaty
chassis for the conventional 4 score and 10 years.
So: the SPIRITUAL self, once developed by a body of flesh, can be sustained
indefinitely without continuation of the body of flesh.
