What is the soul?

When? I did no such thing – quite the opposite. I explained that the physical is defined by this mathematical space-time structure with rules that care nothing about what we want or believe. The spiritual on the other hand, has not such mathematical space-time structure and it is very responsive to what we want and believe.

I certainly don’t use the word “metaphysical” in the way that you do. For me metaphysics is just the philosophical study of the nature of reality. You seem to be using the word for something like “spiritual,” which seems like a bizarre usage to me.

@mitchellmckain

Are angels physical, or metaphysical? I certainly vote that they are non-physical, aka metaphysical in their manifestation.

Next: You insist that the soul is physical, and not metaphysical. But I don’t agree with that, even if souls are not immortal.

Side Note:
It is a dubious fact or non-fact that God made souls to be mortal or immortal… and since the whole point of the Christian life is to qualify for immortality, it is - again - a quandary more metaphysical than physical.

Angels are non-physical, aka spiritual - in every way. It is Dale who is suggesting they are physical in some other dimension.

No, I insist that the soul is nonexistent. There is no such thing as a magical thingie inserted into bodies to make them alive or anything moving around from body to body. There is only the spirit created by our choices and imperishable according to Paul.

Incorrect. It is the whole point of Christianity that we can never qualify and immortality is not what we are aiming for anyway. What we hope for is eternal life in a relationship with God – that is an eternal existence which is worthwhile. Others are promised an eternal existence which is considerably less than desirable.

It is only a discussion about the nature of reality which is metaphysical.

They can make themselves visible to our eyes and audible to our ears, so that implies some kind of physicality, don’t it.

I am going to have to agree with @mitchellmckain on that one. We never qualify – it’s a gift. The relationship is what it’s all about, and the joy in communion with family (and Family). But it starts here – I am already adopted and already experiencing existential joy and delight in God, and in what I have been given and am still being given – it’s not just my future secure hope.

Nope. That buys into false premises that the spiritual is less real, ephemeral, shadowy, mental, unsubstantial, intangible, transparent, invisible, etc… What we know for certain from the Bible 1 Cor 15 is that the spiritual (when alive or resurrected) is imperishable, more powerful, made of the stuff of heaven, and (at least in our case) comes after the physical. When the spirit is dead. however, it can be shadowy, ghostly and such. But when alive (connected with God), the spiritual is more real and capable in every way and it is the physical which is less real by comparison – a temporary coordination of particles like the way images on a tv screen is a coordination of pixels.

Yes. Life is more than just existence. Life is growth and learning. The physical universe is quite big and promises a considerable amount of growth and learning. But once our connection with the physical ends then we need a relationship with the infinite creator of the universe. Then with no end to what God has to give, growth and learning – life not just existence – can continue forever.

Because God has given us so much in the physical universe, many experience life to the fullest already – exploring all the opportunities already available to us. We all have self destructive habits, but not all in the same measure. And so while for some all seems great and they see no need for God, for others the value of life drains away much more quickly, more desperately needing a connection with God to even make it through the day. For others it may simply be misfortune that tips the balance. But regardless of fortune, in the end, it is like the law gravity, where everything comes down eventually – call it the law of sin if you like. And so our need for God is twofold – not only because He is the source of life, but because He is the only one who can remove our sins (something which is not possible without our cooperation).

Nope, it does not. It says that angels are in different dimensions, not less real.

No the spiritual is more real.

So you believe people in other dimension should be called angels… LOL What a hoot!

enough of this nonsense for today…

And suddenly there appeared with the angel a great multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying…

They weren’t hooting.

You are misquoting me. Guess what that says about your arguments.

O.M.G.!!!

@Dale

Its no wonder it takes forever to get thru these things. I immediately accept the phrasing of a GIFT. It doesnt change my position in the least:

Whether God starts with a soul already immortal… or starts with onr that he later treats as immortal is all the same to me.

Okay, but it is not about ‘our qualifying’, like the ball was in our court.

@Dale

Didn’t I already concede your correction?

I guess you did. :slightly_smiling_face:

Once again: Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

Meaning that it can happen you meet a stranger with a need who in reality is an angel while you are not aware of it. You are not aware because the angel looks exactly like a human.

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@mitchellmckain

Paul seems to have a different way of describing souls and their mortality - -
or should I say, their IMMORTALITY?

1Co 15:41-42
There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars:
for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead.
It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Co 15:44-47
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body,
and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made
a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not
first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is
spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the
Lord from heaven.

1Co 15:50-53
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;
neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We
shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of
an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be
raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put
on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Paul is quite clear that what he talking about in 1 Cor 15 is resurrection not souls.

35 But some one will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?”

He goes to great pains in explaining that we are raised not in a physical/natural body but a spiritual body, imperishable, powerful, and made of the stuff of heaven and not of dust or the Earth. And he stresses quite a few times that the physical comes first and is like a seed from which the spiritual body grows.

But it is not just Paul who thinks this way about the resurrection. Peter says much the same thing about Jesus’ resurrection.

For Christ died for sins once and for all, a good man on behalf of sinners, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death physically, but made alive spiritually (1 Peter 3:18)

@mitchell,

Perhaps your opinion is evolving?

Didn’t you used to say that there can be no soul without a body?

Or are you saying that because Paul used the phrase “spiritual body”, you somehow
think your conditions have been met … that there is a BODY? I would have to object
for the obvious reason that a “spiritual body” is not the same as “a body”.