What Is The Gospel and what does it do?

Faith & Science Conversation
149

I believe in spiritual things but I don’t believe in literal magic, and I certainly don’t equate spiritual with magical. I think divine magic is particularly nonsensical. I believe that the notion of magic comes from the experience of infancy when by merely crying out, someone more powerful and knowledgeable makes our discomfort go away. But obviously there is no one for God to cry out to. Obviously, anything God does must come from His own knowledge and ability. In other words, just because God does something doesn’t mean there is no asking how, as if all it takes is for God to make a wish or give a command. And God’s omnipotence doesn’t mean He can do whatever you say by whatever means you care to dictate – logical coherence applies.

So can God literally shape something from clay and make it come “alive?” Probably – though it may take alterations of the laws of nature to do so. But the results are not independent of the means. In that case the result would not be a human being but a golem. Likewise, the redemption of human beings comes from the work of God upon us in our experiences to change how we think, feel, and desire. And the substance of our salvation is the removal of the self-destructive habits of sin, and as the Bible says over and over again, to write the law of God on our hearts (i.e. the good habits which liberate our potential so that we can come alive and learn all God has to teach us).

Jesus’ death and resurrection was to overcome some fundamental misunderstandings which were in the way of a good, healthy, and proper relationship with God. The cross was to teach us that God will do anything to help us, and the problem was always us entirely – that our sins would crucify anyone God sent to help us. Thus we are called to repent and to change, but it is only our own perversity that we quite often do not change unless the innocent suffer because of us. The resurrection was to teach us that physical death is not the end, for our spirit can be reborn to life more substantial and real than anything physical.

It was first by Adam that we were born of God with an inheritance of mind from God speaking to him. But then this was corrupted by self-destructive habits. Jesus was the second Adam and through Him came a restoration the inheritance by which we can literally be reborn as children of God, when we put our trust in Him.

Is there some power of necromancy in the divine-human sacrifice of Jesus on the cross? No. Does God require some magical spell in order to forgive people? No. Can the innocent actually pay for the crimes of the guilty? No. Are Christians magically transformed so they are now without sin? No. Does God really have to pay something to Satan in order to save us from him? No. There is certainly a great deal of truth to all these metaphors in the Bible, but taking them literally is a mockery, like making Jesus’ parable of the sower to be about agriculture.

Is repenting of ones sins and the beginning of a personal relationship with Jesus an important tool in God’s arsenal for restoring a life-giving relationship with God to remove our self-destructive habits and write the law of God on our hearts so we do what is right for its own sake? Yes. It was blaming God for our problems which separated us from God, and it is sin which causes the spirit to die. The death and resurrection of Jesus overcomes that separation so that God can work in our lives to overcome the bad habits which are destroying us. But that takes a great deal of time, and it is referred to as sanctification in the Bible. We are reborn to a new relationship with God, but that is only the beginning of a life of faith, in which there can be no entitlement.

Faith is not is an agreement to a set of doctrines interpreting the Bible in some approved way. That is a Gnostic gospel of salvation by knowledge of sound doctrine. I believe in this stuff for one reason only – because I believe it to be correct. It does not earn me anything. This is not about making a deal with God that you can be saved if you believe the right things, perform rituals in the correct way, obey enough commandments, or do enough good works. This is about God changing us to be the kind of people who inhabit a heavenly kingdom – because as it is we will make any place we go to into a living hell.

150

Jesus Christ ,this thread is all over the place😅

1 Like
151

I deserved to be executed for my crimes against God. Justice demanded my execution. I had no hope, the Law of God declared me guilty. By my thoughts, words, actions and very nature I was an enemy of God. Those who acted as my friends (my sins) sought my death. Powerless to free myself, I was a condemned man. Then God showed mercy to me by doing that which was necessary to free me, HE EXECUTED ME! Yes, God executed me which set me free. He took me into the boosem of Jesus and nailed me to a cross. In Jesus I died for my crimes, my sins. But in Jesus I was carried through death and judgment, then I was raised up to life and seated with Him in Heaven. Through Jesus I died to sin, Satan and the world. The very thing that I deserved (execution) was the very thing that delivered me, but only because it was done through Jesus. I was crucified to the world. I died to sin and was raised up to life in Jesus. Born again, a new creation, a child of the Father. Jesus who knew no sin, became my sin. And through His resurrection I was raised to eternal life. THAT IS GOOD NEWS! It is no longer I that lives but Christ that lives in me and the life I now live, I live by dependence (faith) in the Son of God. Through the righteous and merciful judgement of God I now stand as a free man.
The cross of Jesus is my death. His resurrection is mine. In this life.
He paid the ransom to God for my freedom. The debt I owed (my death) He paid. My inner man, the hidden man of the heart, my spirit has been born of God, NOW!!! It is through the new creation He has made me, that His salvation is working in me, NOW!!! I am a New Creation in Christ Jesus.

Do you know this SALVATION? Is Christ in you? Is the Father living in you? Are you born of God, NOW?

152

[quote=“mitchellmckain, post:149, topic:44478”]
Is there some power of necromancy in the divine-human sacrifice of Jesus on the cross?
[/quote
By Jesus becoming sin for us, He took on our guilt. He was the sacrifice lamb that was offered in our place. Through His blood we have been redeemed. His life offered as ours, sets us free from sin and the powers of this age. Through Him we are more than conquerors , in this life.

He who knew no sin, became sin, so that we would become the rightiousness of God through Him. That is in this life. Christ living in our newly created spirits empowers us to be free from our old master sin. Through Jesus becoming my sin, then raising from the dead, I have died to sin and have been raised a New Creation. It’s all right there in the scriptures. Paul lays it out very plainly.

The payment was made to God, not to Satan. God required the death of the rebellious. Only by the shedding of blood is there the remission of sins.

Not taking what Jesus actually did in His death and resurrection literally is a mockery. It is rejection of the way that God delivers people from their sin and His just wrath. The cross of Christ is our salvation, rejection of it is our condemnation. The New Creation that is created through His death and resurrection is the writing of God’s laws on our hearts. It is actually being born again, born of the Father and it happens in this life.

Faith is a trust and reliance on what God did for us through the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is not an example, it is the act of our execution in Christ and a new spirit being birthed in us, now. Unless a man is born again, he can not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. That happens now, in this life.

I will only boast in the cross of Christ, for through it I have been crucified to the world and the world to me.
We must repent, turn, and believe the Good News.

153

Jesus did not literally become sin. Again this is a metaphor which Xtians have twisted using literalism to transform this into the black magic of human sacrifice.

And this is the reason why… the rhetoric of borrowed righteousness to justify entitlement. In this way Xtians can make themselves the new Pharisees self-righteously lording it over others by covering their sins with a whitewash of theological righteousness.

A ransom is paid to the one who has you in bondage. So taking this literally leads to all kinds of confusion. So Origen thought the ransom was paid to Satan. Of course many objected to this idea because the notion that God in Jesus must pay a ransom to Satan is outrageous. But making this a payment to God says that God is the one who has us in bondage which is even worse. The truth is neither because this is a metaphor only and no ransom is literally paid to anyone. That is the nature of metaphors they only work up to point and then they fall apart if you take them too far.

We are in bondage but not to God or the devil but to sin. And getting out from this bondage so difficult it certainly does seem to require a price of blood and tears to do so. Very often we do not change until the innocent have suffered considerably because of them. But to call this a literal payment is downright perverse. It is the same with Jesus on the cross. There is no doubt whatsoever that our sin put Jesus on that cross and likewise there is no doubt that Jesus was willing. On the other hand, we do not praise those like Judas, Pontius Pilate, or Jews calling out “crucify him” for their role in this. It is the same kind of metaphor we use when we say our soldiers gave their lives for our freedom. We would not give thanks to those who killed them so that they could make this sacrifice any more than we give thanks to Judas and Pontius Pilate.

That boasting is as perverse as boasting of all those who have suffered because of your sins. It is a way of twisting faith into entitlement which is the very opposite of faith to claim salvation as one of your accomplishments in life. Salvation is not and never will be something that belongs to you. Salvation is the work of God and He is not obligated to do so. Not by your recitations of scripture can you fabricate contracts to bind God, nor with your theological legalisms can you appease God. That is the same old religion of idols and paganism rebranded.

Indeed! This much is correct.

We must repent of our sins – the bad habits which are destroying us. For our salvation is the removal of these self-destructive habits and the restoration of a relationship with a living God. To this end we rejoice in the good news, that we have seen God in Jesus, that we have seen God giving everything for our salvation, and we have seen in Jesus the resurrection to eternal life.

154

You have yet to understand the Gospel. The Law, Jesus and apostles revealed the truth of what I have stated. It is Paul who said he would only boast in the cross of Christ. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin. It is the grace of God that the blood of Jesus was offered up in our place. The New Covenant is in His blood. He offered it to God in the Heavenly Holy of Holies. He is the High Priest of the New Covenant, a priest without beginning or end as Hebrews states. If a person rejects this, they reject the way God has provided to atone and cleans them from sin. They become a person who is trying to work their way to cleans themselves from their sin, which is no longer grace but works.

Rev:5-9 “for thou was slain and has redeemed us to God by thy blood”

155

Far from Him, the good news in person, that’s for sure, and His clear simple message of outrageous universal reconciliation.

156

[[2Co 5:21/KJV]] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Good News indeed. Christ became our sin. The sacrfice Lamb became our sin. Its not that He just took our individual sins to the cross, He became sin for us. That is why when He was executed as a sinner we were too. So we died to sin and to the world. That is what sets us free from them. His resurrection then gave us a new nature in our inward man.
When we believe in our hearts that God raised Him from the dead and confess our allegiance to Him by declaring Him as our Lord we will be made safe. We have placed all our hope and confidence in Him. Not in our ability to perform well enough to change ourselves but in His power working in us to conform us into His likeness. Though obedience is necessary because if we love Him we will obey Him, as He said, but it is Spirit and power enabling us to walk in the law of love that He has written on our hearts. It is christ living in us that leads us in the paths of righteousness. It is Christ in us that empowers us to follow Him. Without His blood, sacrifice, death, resurrection and Spirit we have no hope. It is not burdensome for me to repeat these things for it brings glory to God, it is a confession of my faith and my Lord and it is the power of God for the salvation to all wo believe them.

157

I traced back this conversation from Cody’s reply because it interested me. I wasn’t sure what cattle truck was being referred to but the image I had was being carted off to the fires of hell. What would a Christian do when he finds himself in that situation, in a dump truck headed for the place where their contents go into the lake of fire? It is a question I have essentially answered before, but the imagery here inspires me. So what will you do in that truck or in the fires of hell itself (when you are not screaming)?

I do not think Cody’s answer would be such a bad one even if it is the truck to hell rather than to a Nazi furnace. It is not the answer I gave, but it is not too bad. What I expect from many Christians is a lot of whining and complaining that they do not belong in the truck, for they did what their church pastor told them they needed to do or what they read in the Bible telling them to do. They just are like that man in Matthew 19 who was looking for what was enough to make salvation one of their accomplishments in life. “With men this is impossible,” was the answer of Jesus in verse 26. By now it should be clear that I do not believe in any such entitlements. There is no enough.

If I find myself in that truck to hell or in the fires of hell itself, I will not be whining and complaining. I have rejected any sense of entitlement – not from ritual, or scripture, from my beliefs, nor from a litany of good deeds. For no matter how I may hope that God will redeem me from my sins, I have no delusions of entitlement from some theologically fabricated “get out of jail free” card in my pocket. I have not tried to bargain away my intelligence or integrity in exchange for some delusion of reprieve as if confusing God with the devil in the making of such deals. No. If I am in such a truck, I would not question that I am right where I belong.

So if I am not whining and complaining, then what will I be doing? If I look up ahead and see Cody preaching the gospel to the others in the truck, I will have no contempt for that! Not like I would for the whiners, reciting Bible scriptures like lawyers and scribes to justify themselves. What I will be doing is praising God for His will be done which I know is right and just. I did not give my allegiance and love to God just because of some promise of what someone or scripture said He could do for me. I gave my love and loyalty to God because of who He is – His character, His righteousness, His compassion, His wisdom, and His love. I truly saw in Him what is right and would not trade my respect crawling before a devil or some soul destroying monster out of fear, hoping that my fawning and flattery would earn me His favor. I certainly would not take my just condemnation as proof that He is a devil as some here seem to do.

Now… if it is really a cattle truck to a Nazi furnace my answer would be a little different. For I do not trust that all which happens is according to the will of God. No, in that case I would be looking for a chance to fight. If I could take down even one of these monsters before I die, it would seem to me that I was leaving the world a little better place for having been here.

158

More Good News!
Heb 4-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

The word of God is living; it can divide between the soul and the spirit. Those who are born of God are New Creations; their spirits have been born again from above. Our born anew spirit has God’s law written in it. What needs to happen is that our souls, our minds need to be renewed so that we can live in the freedom that was given to us at our new birth.

Rom 8:5- but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. 9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Since the carnal mind is hostile to God, then all that we think and from that, all that we say and do, should be controlled by the Spirit. This is the freedom that Jesus worked for us through His cross.
So with this in mind let us look at just one aspect of many people’s lives and see if the carnal mind is in control or the newly created spirit is in control.

Let’s take the topic of ENTERTAINMENT. Is a person’s entertainment spirit lead or controlled by the carnal mind? TV, movies, music and books, are they godly or carnal and if they are carnal they therefore not subject to God. Do they cause you to grow into the fullness of Christ or put you to sleep in this wicked age?

Rom 1:28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.”

Is your entertainment filled with these characteristics of those who hate God? If it is than cut it off. Pluck out the eye that offends and cast it away. Do your shows either show people fornicating or insinuating they are going to? Do you watch adultery? Are you entertained by, wickedness, evil, greed, depravity, envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice, gossips, slander, God haters, insolence, arrogance, boastful people, children who disobey their parents, faithlessness, heartless and ruthless people? If so then you need to repent and renew your mind with the Word of God, come in line with it. Those who do such things and those who approve of those who practice them are following the same spirit. That goes for the songs you listen to and the books you read.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.

Now is the time to hear the voice of the Spirit. Today is the day of Salvation. Repent and let the Father and the Son deliver you from the works of darkness. That is why Jesus went through death and resurrection. To deliver you from this present wicked age.

159

[[Mat 5:20/KJV]] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."
The righteousness of the Pharisees included the keeping of the Law, to some degree, they did add commands that would nullify some commands of God though. The righteousness that we must have is one that God grants us through the literal new birth of our spirit that happens through the cross of Jesus. Through His cross we die to the Law and sin and are raised a new creation, born again by the will of the Father. This righteousness is the righteousness of God that comes through Christ and it is through that righteousness abiding in us that God’s grace, power, gifts work in us, conforming our souls and puts to death the deeds of the flesh.
The Pharisees had somewhat obedience to the Law but their nature remined the same, through Jesus our inner man has been born from above, the righteousness of God dwelling within us, a new nature. Through the cross of Christ we have died to sin, we have been a set free. So, let us live our lives in loving submission to the Father of our spirits. Let us place our affections on things above not on things of this present age, where Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father.

160

Through the Good News, those who place all their trust in Jesus, become ambassadors for Him.

2 Cor 5:16- So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

As ambassadors, what manner of life should we be living now? Since we have literally died in Christ and been raised to life, we are no longer citizens of this age. We are children of God, and though we abide here at the moment, we longingly look for a city whose builder and maker is God. We are sojourners in this life; we are ambassadors of Christ living in a foreign country. We represent the Father and the Son and the Kingdom of Heaven. Since we know that all these things will be consumed with fire and all those who continue in rebellious wickedness will be cast out from the presence of the Father, we should be laboring to proclaim the Good News of safety through faith, dependence, love and obedience to the Father and the Son. Those of us who love Jesus have a treasure more valuable than all of creation. We have the Good News that Jesus and the Father will live in you, that you can die to sin and literally be raised in Christ to be born of God, in this life.

One aspect of the freedom that Jesus brings is in reference to the possessions in this life. He wants to set us free from love for them, trust in them and slavery to them. As ambassadors we live here but we do not get caught up in the affairs of this life. Since our life is in the Kingdom, we abide here but we do not live here as if this world or age belongs to us.

John 17:16- They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.

1 John 2:15-17 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world — the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does — comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

1 Cor 7:29- What I mean, brothers, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they had none; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

James 4:-4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

1 Peter 2:11- I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.

There are other scriptures that teach us what our present condition is in this temporary existence.

Matt 6:19- "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 "No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. 25 "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?

Those who trust Jesus and the Father need not be filled with care about the things of this life, for the Father has promised to provide our needs. That is liberty, knowing He will provide, sets us free from what the children of this age are consumed with. Those of this age work to obtain the things this life has to offer for this is all they have, the children of God work in trusting reliance upon the Father, knowing He will provide. “Not by power or by might but by my Spirit say’s the Lord.” When we work it is to honor the Father, it is part of our spiritual worship. When He provides us with an income, we use it to honor him. He gives it to us to supply our needs and to help others that are in need. Through this, He receives thanks, honor and glory from His children and those they have blessed. They will see our works of faith and love that we do in Christ and God will be praised, Matt 5:16 “ In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.”

So through Jesus’s death and resurrection we are born again, God is the father of our newly created spirit, we are citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven. So let us “1 Peter 2:12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.”

The Good News is that through Christ’s death and resurrection we are free from this present age.

Gal 5:1 “It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.” So let us live in that freedom, not serving sin, not loving this world and bring the light of the Good News to those Christ died for.

161

Context is important.

John 17:14-18 I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one.[a] 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.

1 John 2: 1 My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and he is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. 3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 7 Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new commandment, which is true in him and in you, because[a] the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. 9 He who says he is in the light and hates his brother is in the darkness still. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and in it[b] there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But he who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I write to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I write to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If any one loves the world, love for the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world passes away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides for ever.

1 Cor 7: 17 Only, let every one lead the life which the Lord has assigned to him, and in which God has called him. This is my rule in all the churches. 18 Was any one at the time of his call already circumcised? Let him not seek to remove the marks of circumcision. Was any one at the time of his call uncircumcised? Let him not seek circumcision. 19 For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. 20 Every one should remain in the state in which he was called. 21 Were you a slave when called? Never mind. But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity. 22 For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ. 23 You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. 24 So, brethren, in whatever state each was called, there let him remain with God. 25 Now concerning the unmarried, I have no command of the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 I think that in view of the present[d] distress it is well for a person to remain as he is. 27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be free. Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. 28 But if you marry, you do not sin, and if a girl marries she does not sin. Yet those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. 29 I mean, brethren, the appointed time has grown very short; from now on, let those who have wives live as though they had none, 30 and those who mourn as though they were not mourning, and those who rejoice as though they were not rejoicing, and those who buy as though they had no goods, 31 and those who deal with the world as though they had no dealings with it. For the form of this world is passing away.

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good life let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. 15 This wisdom is not such as comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, devilish. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, without uncertainty or insincerity. 18 And the harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.
James 4:1 What causes wars, and what causes fightings among you? Is it not your passions that are at war in your members? 2 You desire and do not have; so you kill. And you covet and cannot obtain; so you fight and wage war. You do not have, because you do not ask. 3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions. 4 Unfaithful creatures! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. 5 Or do you suppose it is in vain that the scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit which he has made to dwell in us”? 6 But he gives more grace; therefore it says, “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. 8 Draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you men of double mind. 9 Be wretched and mourn and weep. Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to dejection. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord and he will exalt you.

Taking verses out of context and stringing them together easily creates a false message.

P.S. Not all you quoted was misleading. 1 Peter 2:11-12 and Matthew 6:19-25 made it clear that this was not about a rejection of all the world but only about the evils of the world or investing to heavily in things which are temporary.

162

None of the scriptures you quoted disagree with what I said.

163

The point was that they do not say all of what you said. And it is not that I disagree with everything you said either. But I am wary of the way such scriptures have been used to read evil into things the same way the Pharisees used scriptures to read evil into the works of Jesus. That would amount to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Things are not evil just because they don’t fit into your religiosity and the way you have chosen to live your life. Remaking God and the world in your own image is a terrible thing. And using the scriptures for the repression of a humorless and loveless existence unable to appreciate the joy and beauty of life and the world God has made for us, is to turn Christianity into a thing of death and evil.

I can sum those quotes I put back into context with the following passage of James 1:27 “Religion that is pure and undefiled is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.” This means we must not be jaded by the world and let its evils infect us. The context of those passage you quoted also make this clear. It is not that we are to find no love and enjoyment in the world God created, but that we should not play the nasty games of ambition in the world whereby we get ahead by stepping on other people. Too often you see Christians with a cruel and cheating face in the world of business, and then justifying themselves by using such money to help their church and evangelism. I don’t think that scripture condones this sort of thing at all. As God speaks in Isaiah chapter one so frustrated with religion and telling them to just: “cease to do evil, learn to do good, seek justice, correct oppression, defend the fatherless, plead for the widow.” The reason the orphan and widow are spoken so much of in these passage because in times past without the protection of a man the world treated them as fair game for exploitation and abuse. We are not to take advantage to prey on others, but to help those in need… only this is “religion that is pure and undefiled.”

164

Nothing I said opposes the Word, Spirit or character of God. There is nothing that I expressed that needed to be contradicted. All that was needed was an, AMEN.

165

It’s as if everybody since Paul sees through the glass much darklier. Most in complete darkness. Seeing there own hands in front of them. Which you actually do. Try it. If you can find complete darkness. Like seven hundred feet under ground. But that’s another story.

166

Sometimes the lessons of history require a word of caution to be said. But once caution is given, then we can say AMEN.

167

The whole reality of those who are born from above has been very freeing. Since i am actually a citizen of another kingdom I am not a citizen of this present age. I have no obligation to get wrapped up in the ways of this world. I am here only to bring glory and honor to my Father and Jesus. I am free not to crave this worlds goods, approval, honors and pleasures. My affections are set on the Kingdom of God, to it alone is my allegiance due. Free from the cares and passions of this corrupt age and therefore freed from the just condemnation that will come to all who continue in rebellion against my Father. I am an ambassador of Christ, calling the world into the freedom of the children of God.
I will only glory in the cross of Christ, for through it i died to this world and the world to me.

168

And what is the kingdom of God? A gigantic church? Are your affections for the Kingdom of God merely a lust for the self-righteous affirmations of religious activities? Are these really any more other worldly than all the things which this world God has made has to offer? I doubt it. But if you are talking about devoting yourself to helping those in need? Then my skepticism vanishes, for Christ made it clear that greatness is to found in this. And is there only one way to be of service to others? No there are many. Even in a church there are many. But there are many ways to be service to others outside the church as well which are crucial to the well being of others. And what are we to think of someone who makes much of their service to others while dismissing the service of others?