What Is The Gospel and what does it do?

Faith & Science Conversation
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That is very commendable, Cody! And I agree with you that partaking in entertainment that glorifies any dehumanizing things … including sexual or violent sins against others, if it encourages us to indulge in any of those things, I agree with you that we are called to leave such cultural enticements behind. There are things I watch (and likely will still watch … Star Wars stuff like ‘Mandalorian’) that I will confess probably fall well below such high standards. Nor should I pretend that is the only stuff I am exposed to … I also watch news comedy shows that you would find despicable for the sometimes vulgar language, crude joking, but perhaps worst of all by some scorebooks: they tend to be liberal. It isn’t that I particularly celebrate those aspects of those shows. But it is a way that I do keep at least one finger on at least some part of the pulse of current culture that I am, even so, vastly isolated from and ignorant about. Not all of it is bad … and much of it is a reaction against things that thoroughly need reaction against. Maybe that’s me justifying stuff or making excuses I shouldn’t. But all I will say is, if that sort of stuff is the worst of the sins I need to be purged of before the throne, then I’ll be delightfully surprised. But I know in my heart that God has a lot of work to do on me yet, and I have a lot of unfinished work (probably the least of which involves trying to refine my entertainment.)

Now to actually answer the question you asked:

Answer to the first: yes. Early Christians were called from all walks of life - they weren’t the pure and holy ones. They were tax collectors and prostitutes, soldiers and fisherman. Whatever entertainment they had available in their various locals and within their sphere of economic availability - I’m sure they were there. Your next questions - enjoying watching fornication, murder, bitterness, etc. Well… no. Not after the spirit begins to work on them. Some wouldn’t have quit such stuff right away to be sure. If the letters to the Corinthians are any indicator, these were not your flannel graph Sunday school crowd. Paul was busy calling them away from some serious stuff. Your questions get easier and more rhetorical as you go along … the answer to all the rest is “of course not”. Christians aren’t called to take pleasure in any of that stuff. But as to how much they were present in these cultural venues, I think some were. While some did respond to Paul’s call to “come out from them and be separate”, I’m fairly convinced that not all of them necessarily did that (think of the centurion). There are ways, times, and places where Christians can (and even should) be found in a variety of cultural settings - without necessarily glorying in what they find and see there. Something in me doubts that today’s conservative ideal of “righteous entertainment” would necessarily match Christ’s. The religious leaders today who would self-righteously stare down their noses at the man laughing uproariously at a questionable joke over his pint at the pub - those leaders are not the ones who seem most acquainted with where Christ might be found in today’s culture - in the faces of the disempowered, the immigrant, or maybe Jesus is even sitting in the pub having just shared the questionable joke.

You can cast your lot in with the leaders if you wish. But I suspect Christ will be found elsewhere.

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It is certainly not inappropriate to laugh at a ‘dirty joke’, and you don’t need to feel guilty if you do. But then a comment is called for, to say that the joke was funny, but it wasn’t good. That will get some puzzled looks. :grin: What make things funny is surprising incongruity, the unexpected, regardless of the content. I’m quite sure we don’t want to encourage off-color humor, though.

Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. Ephesians 5:4

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Did any of you guys see “Jesus Camp”? It was just horrifying. (Rent it at a nominal price on Amazon Prime.) I considered it misdemeanor child abuse. The kids were taught that Harry Potter was sinful. The leader of the camp, Becky Fisher, never mentions the sin of gluttony. I wonder why?

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Let me boast a little in where I found Jesus and where He was with me.

In a period of time when I fell away from the Lord, Jesus was with me convicting me of my sins. When I was watching carnal, fleshly shows, Jesus was there. Not as a friend trying to buddy up to me and enjoy what I was doing, but constantly showing me the flesh and the world that was flooding out of what I was watching. I had no pleasure in it and thankfully returned to the Lord and turned away from that worldly filth.

When I was a new convert, Jesus came into a situation and literally saved me from committing fornication. Part of the way He saved me was to make me sick to my stomach. I went with a girl I knew out for the evening, when I took her home she invited me inside. She left the room for a moment and came back in a nightgown. She started coming on to me hot and heavy. Now this is what Jesus came and did to me, He made me disgusted at her affections, the very ones I use to crave. He made my stomach sick just thinking about what was going on. Both Jesus and I got up and told her we had to leave, we left. The next day, Jesus had me call her up and tell her I wouldn’t see her again because what she did last night was sin and I wanted no part of it.

I found Jesus, when He led me out to colleges to proclaim repentance from sin and faith toward Him and the Father. In open air preaching and one on one, He was faithful to convict of sin, righteousness and judgment. Some believed and repented. Others mocked. The seed fell on good ground and bad, I obeyed Jesus and left the growth up to Him.

I found Jesus on the streets at night in the city, seeking out the lost and calling them to repentance and faith.

I found Jesus taking in some homeless people, helping to provide for their needs, pointing them towards the Lord, taking them to church. He took in a couple of families for awhile also and helped them get on their feet.

I found Jesus when an elderly neighbor who had lived with her older brother, was left all alone when he died. Jesus had him tell her to call Cody, said I would help when he died. She did call. I visited her just about every day to make sure she was ok. When an ice storm knocked out all our power for 11 days, I found Jesus helping that neighbor with a generator and keeping it going so she could have her needs met. I found Jesus helping me when she said she wanted to give me her very large house and 40 acres for taking care of her. Jesus led me to not take it; we thought it would give the wrong impression. I found Jesus helping to not covet that house and property after she ended up giving it to someone else. Jesus kept me free from the love of those worldly treasures. I have eternal treasures in Heaven. He saved me!

I found Jesus during a time of comforting a grieving widow. Leading her to place her hope and trust in He who is a husband to the widows.

I found Jesus when He blessed a family that lived in a literal shack, with a brand new house. Jesus was there working in me to provide for them. The Father gave me and Jesus ½ the money and then others at church with the help of Jesus and the Father gave the rest. He was there with me working with His hands for about 8 months off and on when we had time.

I found Jesus when I went to a whore house. We were there to call the owner and the girls to turn from sin and follow Jesus and they would be forgiven and cleansed. He wasn’t there to enjoy the customs but to call them to repentance. His grace was very apparent.

Jesus also showed up at a strip club to call those going in to turn and follow Him. Most didn’t listen, but one man listened to Jesus and fled from that place with thankfulness to Jesus. He went home to his wife. Another time Jesus kept me and some friend safe from being beat up. Some guys that worked at the strip club came walking out yelling at us. They were very angry. As they got closer, one of the girls came out of the club and started telling those guys to leave us alone, their attitude change. Jesus and I started talking to those guys about turning from sin and following Him. One of the guys said that his god was stronger than Jesus because his god killed Jesus; he was real smug when he said it. Then I said, “Jesus rose from the dead.” The guy’s countenance totally changed. He humbled down and began to listen to us. He ended up telling us he has a grandmother praying for him. That was a good time with Jesus.

Jesus was with me many more times than I can remember at different abortion locations. He was there pleading with the women not to kill their babies. He offered them assistance. Some children and the mothers were kept safe. He was even able to have a mother’s daughter adopted by an acquaintance of mine.

I found Jesus when I went to federal court for pleading with mothers not to abort their babies. He was there to, being a witness to the judge, the federal marshals, everyone in the courtroom and even to people all across the nation who saw us on TV.

You should have seen how Jesus spoke to the guards and prisoners while He was in jail. When they found out why we were in there, they had great respect for us and would listen to us. What Jesus, I and many others were doing had become known by so many that when I called out of jail to talk to my wife and kids, when the operator heard my name she said, “God bless you for what you are doing”. The mercy, kindness, love, justice and warning of judgment to come, had been demonstrated for so long that it was spread around the nation on TV, radio and the newspapers. His name was being proclaimed across the country. Many hated Him for it but many people’s faith was increased.

Both Jesus and I don’t often like to state the amounts of money that the Father gave to us to give away, but we were able to give according to the Father’s blessing on us; sometimes from our abundance and sometimes even in our lack. We both trust the Father, so it’s all good.

So, these are a very few of the times I found Jesus. It’s awesome and gracious of Jesus to allow us to be included in His works and Kingdom.

Oh, by the way. I will only boast in the cross of Christ and in what He has done to deliver me from sin and this present world. All glory, honor and praise go to Him who sets on the throne and unto the Lamb. Those of us who belong to Jesus are just His body; we go where He takes us as His Spirit leads.

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Just started watching. Only watched a little so far. It reminded me of the use of child soldiers in Africa. Why do they do that? It’s obvious. Children are easier to control. They are much more of blank slate you can program to do anything – to do evil. The teacher says and asks the children to chant, “if you don’t open your mouth, the Holy Spirit can’t talk.” That is a classic cult tactic. You gotta do what we say because God’s work cannot be done unless you do. The burden of salvation is on you. That is just wrong!

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You’re doing the best you can according to what you know as another man’s servant @Cody_G. God bless you.

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There is much to celebrate in your personal sharing, Cody. Any time you have done even the least little act of compassion for somebody to meet their need in the moment, even if it was without any apparently stated religious or political motivation or appeal - any one of such acts by itself is worth truckloads of correct doctrine and scriptural quotation. May Jesus lead each of us to increased attention and obedience to His Spirit. Not that you need approval from anybody but One. His is the only approval that counts.

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@Cody_G Have you ever called out anybody for the sin of gluttony, perhaps standing outside of restaurants to preach? The U.S. faces an obesity epidemic, and gluttony wastes food that otherwise could be used to feed the poor.

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No I have not. But if you’re referring to yourself, that you like Paul see the importance of subduing the cravings of the flesh and that by it you are receiving the benefits of self-control that is good.
1 Cor 9:27 I treat my body hard and make it my slave so that, after proclaiming the Good News to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

If we are overcome or mastered by even lawful things it is not good. Anything can become an idol to us and God wants us to be free from idolatry. We have but one Lord, one master, so let us serve Him and exhort other to do also.

Since the idea of not overindulging and wasting food is on your mind and you are concerned for others who you are aware of doing it, you obviously are at liberty to talk with them. If it is in your heart to see them free from slavery to this passion, then let them know that Christ living in them will help subdue the passions of the flesh that can cause them to become slaves to them.

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That food can be used to feed the poor doesn’t mean it will actually be used to feed any but worms in the dump. So is it the poor worms you are speaking of, that you somehow think it better for food to be thrown in the garbage than to be eaten? Obesity is certainly a good reason, but that is not just a product of just gluttony but of many things, including heathy diet, exercise, and many other factors – attend to them all and you will be running that person’s whole life.

Disqualified from what? What do you think 1 Cor 9:27 is talking about? Surely you don’t think you are earning salvation.

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Read the chapter before and after. If we subject ourselves to the cravings of the flesh and are overcome by them and are enslaved by them, then we are idolators and no idolator has an inheritance in the Kingdom of Heaven. Observe the example of the Israelite. Christ set us free from the flesh, so live in that freedom.

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So “idolatry” which you can interpret as anything you like is an unforgivable sin… ergo you get to decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. Sounds like legalism to me.

Romans 10:5 Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on the law shall live by it. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, Do not say in your heart, “Who will ascend into heaven?” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

…not an unforgivable sin, like blaspheming against the Holy Spirit Mark 3:28-30. But it is the opposite of faith.

By the epistle of James we know that faith expresses itself in our actions. But we don’t get to say which actions are which and usurp the prerogative of God damning people to hell as if you could resurrect Christ from the dead yourself.

To be sure there is no problem with calling Christians not to be the slaves of sin as Paul does on many occasions. It is just that word “disqualified” which sounded wrong.

1 Cor 8 is about the food offered to idols, where Paul is addressing the idea that the food is somehow contaminated by evil. No such thing, but Paul recommends avoiding things which might cause other Christians to fall from grace – like not drinking in front of alcoholic Christians.

1 Cor 9 is about the rights of apostles and how Paul became all things to all people in order to win them to Christ. In ends with an analogy about running a race and it is to that metaphor that the word “disqualified” refers. But nothing in the context makes this about salvation.

1 Cor 10 is about learning the lesson of history from Israel. Not to desire and indulge for sin is a dangerous thing which entraps, seduces, and corrupts. So to conclude the discussion of idols from chapter 8, even if these idols are nothing we shouldn’t indulge in pagan celebrations lest these draw us away from God. Even if we are not bound by absolute laws it does not mean that we shouldn’t discern what is helpful from what is dangerous and harmful. So like Paul we can do all things and be all things when it is in the service of God, but not when it is doing harm to others.

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From where did you infer that?
 

Unforgiven idolators is what is implicit, not that they are unforgivable. Everyone of us is an idolator at some point – whenever we give undue attention to anything other than God. (Some of us may be idolators by our participation in this BioLogos forum. :grin:)

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Legalism would me being following the rules and then saying, “I deserve or you owe me because I kept the rules perfectly”. The grace of God that makes us safe says, “I executed you in Christ through His cross, therefore you have died to sin. I raised you up in Christ and birthed you, made you a New Creation, I have made your spirit the righteousness of God through Christ. Now from that unmeritted gift, walk in the spirit and you won’t fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Put on the New Man and be transformed by renewing your mind through the word of Christ. In so doing you will live free from the lusts of the flesh. Therefore, there is no condemnation for those who are IN Christ Jesus…who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”

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I disagree. I think the definition of legalism is Romans 10:5-7 which says that legalism is thinking you have some rule or law by which you can say who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. And that goes for spouting some piece of theology as much as anything else. It is better simply to leave all judgement and salvation in the hands of God. It is not for US to say who is IN Christ Jesus or who live according to the flesh and who live according to the Spirit. Jesus says…

Matthew 6:1 “Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. 2 “Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward.

The things of religion can also be things according to the flesh…

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A lot of people have a hard time understanding the difference between legalism and the grace, unmeritted favor, power, righteousness of God that comes through our union with Jesus in His death and resurrection. It helps if you realize and accept, it was us on the cross, it was us who were judged, it was us who were resurrected and it was us who were born of God, made to be New Creations, recreated in the righteousness of God. That is the free gift of the Father. It is the New Creation and the infilling of the Spirit that makes us alive IN CHRIST.

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Something is hindering you from understanding the cross and all it incorporates. Paul and others explain it in depth. Though as Peter said, “His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do other scriptures, to their own destruction”.

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It is my understanding from what
I think you have said in the past, that you don’t glory in the cross of Christ. Now Paul does and so do I and all who understand the freedom from sin and condemnation that it brings. It is through the cross that God sets us free. It is through the cross that we are born again and it is through the cross we are raised to be the righteousness of God IN CHRIST. When a person understands that and places all their trust in that and lives according to the Spirit, they are kept safe from the flesh and will not be condemned. Outside of the cross, we live in our own strength.

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I could say the same things of you. But I do not.

That is not a righteousness based on faith. Romans 10

These are all judgements best left to God.

I would not want my words to become my judge. Matthew 7:2

Sounds like building on shifting sand to me.

More legalism and a Gnostic gospel of salvation by knowledge.

I believe in the gospel taught by Jesus and Paul which is salvation by the grace of God not salvation by agreement with the theology of Cody_G.

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As long as a person considers the cross of Christ a metaphor or example and not a reality, they are outside of the New Covenant that is in His blood. They have no part of Christ. They have not been born from above and have not been recreated in Christ. Without God and hope.