It doesn’t take much discernment when a show exalts or shows approval of the works of the flesh that I pointed out from the scripture texts.
Do his writings promote the carnal mind, the works of the flesh, the nature of sinful man? If they do, then no the are not promoting Christ and helping a person to renew their mind. If they promote Christ and give a clear understanding of what He did and who He is and they bring glory and honor to God, then good.
The natural man can express kindness, gentleness, a form of justice and many attributes that most would call good. But if in truth they don’t do it for the glory and honor of God and by His Spirit, than all it lines up with is, Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.
We don’t judge those outside the church for they already stand condemned. But we still take no part in their ungodliness, that should be obvious to children of the Holy God as was made clear by the previous scripture.
That is too bad for God finds it very offensive. And it was for things like that Jesus allowed Himself to be executed for so we too would find them offensive and turn our eyes and hearts from them.
Eph 5:14
“Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you.”
I am glad you are finally showing some discernment on this matter. You were making it very hard to see that you were using any at all.
With at least some discernment, as you do here, most of my objections are withdrawn. Where we draw the line can be a difficult choice and somewhat personal relative to our own situation and temptations.
I don’t believe you.
You know what else has a lot sex in it.
The Bible!
The natural world which God created!
I do not accept that you can speak for God on this matter.
To be sure, there is a great deal which I find offensive: sexual behavior which is so predatory I find it hard to distinguish from cannibalism. It just so happens, I never had sex outside my one and current marriage. But that is the grace of God only and no credit to me whatsoever. Furthermore, I am still a sinner in need of redemption and my sins are no better than those of anyone else. It all leads in the same self-destructive direction. And no I don’t whitewash my sins with a lot of theological gobble-dee-gook. If one does not acknowledge ones sins then one cannot turn from them and repent so as to change.
Col 1:24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Paul was commissioned by God to present the word of God in its fullness, the mystery that had been hidden for ages, that mystery is, Christ in you, the hope of glory. The cross and all it incorporates is that mystery. Through the cross it is Christ that now lives in us, it is He working in us conforming us into the image of God. Is that the goal of worldly entertainment.
28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. 29 To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me." Paul’s goal was to present everyone perfect in Christ. In reference to worldly entertainment, is that the goal of it?
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming."
Since everything will be destroyed in this way, we should shun all the works of the flesh, whether they try to come from our own or from others.
I really can’t imagine you don’t comprehend what my point is when talking about sex. It is obvious that it is in reference to immoral sex, but watching a married couple on a show having sex or acting like it, is immoral, it is an enticement to your flesh.
The scripture does not promote immoral sex but it does show the consequences of it.
The natural world which God created is not even worth a comment.
It is astonishing to me, that anyone who confesses Jesus as their Lord, ruler, master, would disagree with what I am saying. It is simple. 1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For everything in the world — the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does — comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.
There should be no dispute here.There should be an AMEN from all. In Christ, we died to the world and the world to us. These are the masters that He died and rose again to free us from.
It has been stated a few times that the people here are scholarly and know the gospel, and yet it seems that some still are babes. Heb 5:11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13 Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil. Heb 6:1 Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
Your right Cody. Why would I waist my time and allow anything godless in my mind. Why, I cant believe that I have been watching and reading and listening to things where God was spoken about in a profane way, thats one of the 10. How foolish of me to tell my children, “No, you cant watch this because it’s an adult show”. When what I really mean is that there is cursing, immoral situations, partial or full nudity ect in it. I am the adult, I should know better than this, I shouldnt be watching it. I am beginning to understand your point now. I will never be able to watch, read or listen to these things the same again. In fact, I will call out to the Lord to strengthen me and I will resolve never to do it again. I will be careful from now on and judge everything I allow into my mind. May God help me to renew my mind with His word and by His Spirit. Thanks for reminding me that I died in Christ and it is Christ that now lives in me. I will honor and love the Father with all my spirit, mind and strength. You have been a true friend to bring these things to my attention.
Wait a minute Cody. You didnt mention childrens shows. Do you think that the good character building things they teach may not be good because they never speak of Jesus? Are you saying if my child learns that there is a goodness outside of faith in and love for God that all that is like filthy rags? So I could be part of training my children to be good unbelievers? Are you saying that? Actually, I think it was the word of God and the Spirit that just taught me that. I will have to show more love toward my children and increase the instruction of the Lord’s way and with much more care.
For some Xtians, “the Bible says so,” is all the reason they need for anything. But how could this possibly be the case for me? I wasn’t raised Christian. The Bible was just another book among many. In fact, I was raised in nearly the most liberal family imaginable, by couple of psychology majors in the sixties. The dictates of psychology were the basis of my own understanding of what was moral. And I hardly had any of the usual conservative attitudes towards sexuality. Though I could see for myself that free love wasn’t all it was cracked up to be.
So why would I agree with the Bible’s condemnation of sexual immorality?
There would have to be a rational reason for me to credit such a thing.
It has not been very credible to many people since the sixties. It all looks perfectly natural to them. And they see more harm in repression of these natural impulses.
As with most things, I find something of a middle ground – between free love and repression in this case.
You see, I think the problem is that sexual experiences are powerful. They can dramatically change who we are. I see evidence of this all the time, in stories and case studies – examples of how sexual experiences have altered a person at a fundamental level and particularly in their relationships with other people. I see this as an excellent reason for keeping such experiences holy and within carefully restricted guidelines. Throw in the highly predatory nature of a lot of sexual practices and the impact on young people victimized in such a way can be quite nasty – destroying much of their faith in the ideal of love, not to mention destroying their faith in fellow human beings.
So… not just “because the Bible says so.”
On the other hand, too negative and repressive of a treatment of sexuality in early life can have just as much of a distorting impact on personality as early sexual experiences. The stories and case studies of this are just as numerous. Suffice it to say, it is dangerous ground either way and considerable caution is highly advisable.
“As you go into all the world, proclaim the gospel to everyone. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn’t believe will be condemned."
Repent and believe the Good News.
If a man looks at a woman to lust after her he has already committed adultery.
It is our privilege and responsibility to proclaim and obey Jesus and the Good News, it is each persons responsibility to believe it. I will not change the Word of God to appease those who reject it. Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand. Go and sin no more.
Proverbs is all about wisdom. The passage were taken out of context to rebuke what Cody perceived as scoffing. I like to put passages like this back in context of the wisdom being shared in each case. Obviously each time scoffing at such wisdom is not recommended.
Prov 9 The wise man listens and learns.
Prov 13 A wise son learns from his father’s instruction.
Prov 14 Wise people build, do what is right, work, and speak the truth.
Prov 15 The wise person speaks softly and gently, heeds instructions. God loves those who correct their ways and do what is right.
Prov 21 Righteousness and justice is more acceptable to God than sacrifice. Deceit and violence will not prevail or see mercy. Helping with a gift in secret will avert anger. Righteousness and kindness will find life and honor. Careless words bring trouble.
Prov 22 A good name and favor is better than riches. Injustice will reap calamity. Sharing with the poor will bring blessing
Of course these are my considerably redacted paraphrases. So of course you should read these for yourself to see if I have been faithful enough to the text.
Would the apostles and early Christians have gone to the secular plays or the colosium? From my understanding the plays had homosexuals playing the part of the women, the infemanent ones. Would a Christian be entertained by them. Would they have gone to the colosiumn, nope. Wait. They did go to the colosium but they were the entertainment.
What I am trying to do is help believers in Jesus see and understand is not for the purpose of harming them, it is to help them grow in the knowledge of the Father and the Son. As we are told to do, encourage one another daily because of the decietfulness of sin.
That’s an interesting question, Cody. Here are some related rhetorical questions that may help give some answer: … would early Christians have served among the occupying Roman troops or even as centurions? Would early Christians have included tax collectors? Was Paul above immersing himself in the pagan cultures of Athens in order to engage with them?
I’ve heard it said recently that “culture eats ideologies for lunch.” I suggest that the same might be said for religion and religious practices (which I actually think of as ideologies too - a generally neutral term the way I’m using it here). In any case, I think you may be imagining, Cody, that you and your understanding of God has transcended culture. I’m here to inform you that it hasn’t. Not for you and not for me. Whether you like it or not, your culture and traditions have shaped you - and that prior to your very first understandings of any scriptures whatsoever. Those who even taught you how to read as a child, already taught you - downloaded straight into your mind and heart as it were, how scriptures were to be read, received, and understood. So the meanings that you pack into concepts such as “effeminate” (the correct way to spell ‘infemanent’) was already fed to you by modern culture and its ideas about men and women and their socially prescribed behaviors and roles. And that may have some overlap with how Paul and his culture thought of the same word, to be sure; but you almost certainly err when you assume that your ideas about these things have exact correspondence with theirs. They too were immersed in their culture which shaped how they too applied God’s relationship to them. I’m not prepared to give details (in this example) of how their culture was different than ours - that’s what I look to historical scholars to help me with. All I’m saying is that it’s a safe bet that both yours and my own ideas about so-called ‘universals’ we wish to distill from what we call God’s Word are sure to be fallible. Because they belong to you and me … and our culture - which has already shaped our ideologies whether you can see it or accept that or not. That’s why [so many of] our prized ideologies make cute little snacks for the cultural forces that really shaped us.
2 Likes
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
274
Where do you find the time Cody? Between feeding the hungry? Visiting the sick and imprisoned?
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
275
Martin’s true interest is in knowing what Jesus did through the cross is reveal Love. Is reveal universal salvation even to those who aren’t aware of it, which is nearly everyone here, who thinks that they’re OK and others aren’t, and those others.
After all you said, let me ask the question again. Would the early Christians have gone to heathen shows and the coliseum to be entertained? Would they have enjoyed watchings plays about the gods? Would they have enjoyed watching fornication, murder, bitterness, strife, malice, buffoonery, ungodly speech, adultery, and all the other works of the flesh? Would they have taken pleasure in the murders that took place in the coliseum, and think of all the poor animals that were made to fight to the death.
Lets bring up one of the cultural actions and even law. The Romans would take unwanted babies and leave them out to die of exposure. Surely a child of God would have felt free to enjoy such cultural liberties, dont want to rock the boat, we must become all things to all me.
So answer the question please.
Do Christians watch or indulge in any cultural entertainments today? Have you ever seen any movies, Cody? Movies with violence in them? I’ll happily answer your questions, Cody, when you begin to show signs of engaging with any questions that are put to you.
Yes I have. I don’t anymore.
Please answer the question
They deadening my soul to the leading of the Spirit.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
279
Is that in feeding the hungry? Visiting the sick and imprisoned? Widows and orphans in their affliction? Can you point to where He’s leading you that we might follow?