Ouch.
I have never seen such convolutions in all my life.
Richard
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Reading back through what I wrote, your right, I could have explained this better. It all makes sense in my head but didn’t transfer to text very well. I decided to try asking ChatGPT to help me rewrite it:
Thanks for sharing your thoughts — there’s a lot of interesting and deep reflection here, connecting biblical passages with symbolic interpretation and scientific data. To improve clarity, flow, and readability for a wider audience, I’ve revised your text into a more structured, conversational, and coherent explanation while preserving your intent.
Did Jesus and Peter Reveal the Age of the Earth?
It may not seem obvious at first glance, but I believe Jesus and Peter gave us clues about the age of the earth—if we’re willing to dig a little deeper. Jesus often spoke in parables and symbolic language, and we can see an example of this in the feeding of the five thousand.
Let’s take a closer look.
The Symbolism of the Loaves
Matthew 16:9
“Do you still not understand? Do you not remember the five loaves for the five thousand…”
Let’s break this down. Jesus refers to the miracle of feeding 5,000 people with just five loaves of bread. Normally, in biblical times, a “loaf” wasn’t what we think of today—a large fluffy loaf—but rather a flat, round piece of bread about the size of a plate. According to biblical scholar Michael A. Verdicchio (“Lend Me Three Loaves”), this kind of loaf would feed one person for one day.
That idea is echoed in Luke 11:3:
“Give us each day our daily bread.”
This reinforces the idea that one loaf = one day’s food.
So, if one loaf feeds one person for one day, how did one loaf feed a thousand? I suggest this is symbolic. For the 5,000, each of the five loaves represents 1,000 days. So five loaves = 5,000 days. But the lesson goes further.
The Twelve Baskets of Broken Pieces
After the crowd was fed, the disciples collected twelve basketfuls of broken pieces:
Mark 8:19
“When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of broken pieces did you collect?” “Twelve,” they answered.
The number twelve often represents completion or the calendar year (12 months). These fragments—leftovers from each loaf—can be seen as symbolic of time broken into smaller units. If one loaf is one thousand days, and twelve baskets remain, they may represent a year’s worth of broken time, or 1,000 multiplied by 12 = 12,000 days—perhaps a symbolic year in God’s cosmic calendar.
Jesus then says in Mark 8:21:
“Do you still not understand?”
It’s as if He’s hinting at a deeper, hidden meaning beneath the surface.
Peter’s Insight: A Thousand Years as a Day
Peter seems to pick up on this symbolism:
2 Peter 3:8
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.”
This isn’t just poetic repetition. It expresses a two-way relationship between divine and earthly time. A day with the Lord could equal a thousand earth years. If so, then one “Creation Day” (from Genesis) may represent 1,000 years of God’s time, which equates to 365,000 years of human time (since one divine day = 1,000 human years, and each human year = 365 days).
Scaling to Creation Time
If:
- 1 Creation Day = 1,000 years of divine time
- And 1 divine year = 365,000 human years
Then:
- 1 Creation Day = 365 million human years
With six days of creation, we might expect around 2.19 billion years, but the math changes when we factor in the rotation of Earth in ancient times.
As science shows, the length of a day has changed over geological time. Earth rotated faster in the past, meaning there were more days in a year:
| Years Ago | Hours in Day | Days in Year |
|---|---|---|
| Today | 24 | 365 |
| 1 billion | 19 | 461 |
| 4.5 billion | ~4 | ~2,192 |
| 13.8 billion | ~1 | ~8,766 |
Using this data, we can estimate the literal length of each Creation Day. By working backward from Day 7 (which begins at the time of Christ), we get this approximate timeline:
| Creation Day | Days in Year | Length (Years) | Time Span (Start to End) |
|---|---|---|---|
| Day 1 | 2,192 | 2.19 billion | 4.5–2.3 billion years ago |
| Day 2 | 516 | 516 million | 2.3–1.8 billion years ago |
| Day 3 | 487 | 487 million | 1.8–1.3 billion years ago |
| Day 4 | 461 | 461 million | 1.3–872 million years ago |
| Day 5 | 461 | 461 million | 872–411 million years ago |
| Day 6 | 411 | 411 million | 411–present (Time of Christ) |
| Day 7 | 365 | 365 million | Present–365 million years into future |
So the Earth was created at the start of Day 1, around 4.5 billion years ago, and the universe—“in the beginning”—dates back roughly 13.3 billion years, aligning with current scientific estimates.
Conclusion
Through symbolic interpretation and Scripture, we can draw a fascinating timeline that bridges ancient biblical insight with modern scientific understanding. Jesus may not have given us an exact age of the Earth in plain terms, but through His miracles and teachings—and with Peter’s clarification—we might uncover a hidden pattern. One that suggests the creation days are vast, measured in hundreds of millions of years, and that God’s timing is vastly different from ours.
“Do you still not understand?”
Maybe now, we’re starting to.
Some other things to think off too.
Humans ave been around for about 300,000 years. T-Rex was around for 2,000,000 years in the late Cretaceous. That was roughly 65,000,000 years ago. Herrerasaurus went extinct about 228,000,000 years ago. Meaning T. rex was only 65 million years separated from us but 165 million years separated from Herrerasaurus. So plenty of time. Way longer than us.
No. Also the events of creation don’t align.
They have fruit trees before fish. Birds before other tetrapods. So those days fail in that way too. Concordism is failed lens to interpret with.
Science says
Fish
Land animals
Trees
Birds.
The Bible says
Trees ( angiosperms)
Fish
Birds
Tetrapods.
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The creation order is in the same order as the common decent of mankind. Our common decent with fruit trees (and all other plants) was about 1.6 bya which falls on Day 3 (1.8-1.3 bya). Fruit trees are mentioned on Day 3 because they are part of the subject of plants. Note that the creation of plants on Day 3 is in the imperfect tense, as in the first plants were brought forth from the earth, and then other species can be added later.
Our common decent with “birds” (the Hebrew word for insects) was about 630 mya and then fish about 430 mya, both of which fall on Day 5 (872-411 mya).
Common decent with tetrapods is 355 mya and land animals 325 mya that both fall on Day 6 (411-present). Modern birds were land animals before they were birds.
So common decent order for both the Bible and science is:
Trees
Insects
Fish
Tetrapods
Land animals (including birds)
Again no. That’s wrong. What you are saying is wrong. The order of creation in the Bible. Well the first creation myth anyways. Not the creation myths shared following it or throughout the Bible in other places does not align with the scientific data.
So take the way you want to interpret birds instead for insects under winged things right. So it still include birds and things like bats or just insects?
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I think it must come from not understanding what sort of truth is involved in faith.
Imagining that the book that one bases their understanding of the sacred on can also serve as a cheat sheet to unravel empirical questions betrays that misunderstanding.
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In the Hebrew there are not separate terms for birds, bats and insects in general unless talking about specific species. So we need to look at surrounding terms for context.
- Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
The word for birds here is oph (5775. עוֹף ) - bird, that flieth, flying, fowl
From uwph; a bird (as covered with feathers, or rather as covering with wings), often collectively – bird, that flieth, flying, fowl.
Brown, Driver, Briggs goes further in saying that as a collective term, it is anything that flies with wings, and includes insects. - collective flying creatures, fowl, insects;
The inference in these verses is that its not just the living creatures in the sea, but also the “birds” that abounded with abundance. Insects ruled the skies before birds.
The word for “abound” or “abounded” is sharats (8317. שָׁרַץ ) - To swarm, teem, multiply, abound
A primitive root; to wriggle, i.e. (by implication) swarm or abound – breed (bring forth, increase) abundantly (in abundance), creep, move.
And “abundance” is a related term, (8318. sherets) - collective swarmers, swarming things;
Modern birds do not swarm when they breed but insects do. Birds flock which is different. They may do something similar to swarming when they are trying to confuse a predator, but has nothing to do with mass breeding.
The word “moves” is also related to swarming, (7430. רָמַשׂ ramas) - To creep, move lightly, move about,
A primitive root; properly, to glide swiftly, i.e. To crawl or move with short steps; by analogy to swarm – creep, move.
…but we shouldn’t get this confused with the creeping things, remes (7431. רֶמֶשׂ ) - a reptile created on Day 6, which is where real birds eventually came from.
Getting back to specific species of oph and how insects can be grouped separately from birds, we see this in Leviticus where the insects have the description that they swarm but birds dont.
Birds and bats (Day 6):
- Lev 11:13 ‘And these you shall regard as an abomination among the birds (oph); they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the buzzard, 14the kite, and the falcon after its kind; 15every raven after its kind, 16 the ostrich, the short-eared owl, the sea gull, and the hawk after its kind; 17the little owl, the fisher owl, and the screech owl; 18the white owl, the jackdaw, and the carrion vulture; 19the stork, the heron after its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat.
Insects (Day 5):
- Lev 11:20 ‘All flying insects (oph) that creep (sherets) on all fours shall be an abomination to you. 21Yet these you may eat of every flying insect that creeps on all fours: those which have jointed legs above their feet with which to leap on the earth. 22These you may eat: the locust after its kind, the destroying locust after its kind, the cricket after its kind, and the grasshopper after its kind. 23But all other flying insects which have four feet shall be an abomination to you.
So now it seems like you are changing the days around again .
Originally you said day 4 was insects. So is it insects or birds?
Also I’ll be honest. I’m probably not going to further engage with you. I think that you’re whole attempt as trying to use the days as periods is silly. Regardless of what you say, the order of creation in Genesis 1 does not align with science. I honestly think the way you post, with the odd contradictions is because you don’t I is what you’re taking about and you are trying to use ChatGBT to do it, without really reading it. So I’ll rea another few of your responses, probably won’t reply and then decide if you’re sincere.
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False. What we render as “birds” covered flying things only, which many insects aren’t. If anything, “crawling things” is the term for insects.
“Breed” is an extended definition that makes the word talk sense in English; it is not intrinsic to שָׁרַץ (shah-rahtz) which has to do with movement. You’re engaging in the fallacious approach of reading a translation back into the original – almost ubiquitous among beginners, but an error nevertheless.
And in terms of שָׁרַץ, birds do indeed swarm, as do fish; starlings are a great example–
as are some fish species–
BTW, both of these sets of patterns have been described mathematically to the point that simulations can be generated that are indistinguishable from video records.
(Which to me suggests underlying design – animals which clearly don’t use math behaving mathematically!)
Though he’s not the first to do it; many ancient commentators referred to the days as periods, generally calling them “divine days” since only God was around to measure time. But given the actual literary genres involved, treating the days as strict periods is an error; they are organizational units, not calendar units.
You think so? That could explain the fallacious approach to lexicography; Chat GPT is a sloppy linguist.
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No, I put them in order with trees, insects, fish, etc. but didn’t say anything about Day 4.
Common Decent Order by Day:
(Timeline for different species based on: Evogeneao: The Tree of Life)
Beginning of Heavens (immaterial) and Earth (material) (13.3 bya)
Day 1 (4.5-2.3 bya)
Light detection with photosynthesis beginning in cyanobacteria.
- Bacteria (3 bya)
- Archaea (2.5 bya)
Day 2 (2.3-1.8 bya)
Separation of layers (atmosphere, earth’s crust forming/tectonic activity).
- Protists (2 bya)
Day 3 (1.8-1.3 bya)
Stabilization of continents and mountain building.
- Plants (Algae, Mosses, Trees, etc)(1.6 bya)
Day 4 (1.3-0.87 bya)
Lights (a spectrum of light). Early signs of eyespots and neurons begin to evolve in some species.
- Amoebas (1.2 bya)
- Fungi (1 bya)
- Choanoflagellates (900 mya)
Day 5 (872-411 mya)
Sea life and Cambrian Explosion with insects, fish, etc.
- Sponges (800 mya)
- Corals (650 mya)
- Protostomes (Flying Insects, Crustaceans, etc) (630 mya)
- Echinoderms (600 mya)
- Fish (470 mya)
- Lungfish (415 mya)
Day 6 (411-Present (Time of Christ))
Terestrial life with Tetrapods (four limbed)
- Amphibians (355 mya)
- Reptiles (Dinosaurs, Birds) (325 mya)
- Mammals (175 mya)
- Humans (Image of God) (350 kya)
Day 7 (Present-365 million years into future)
Return of Christ and Millennium
New Heavens and Earth
I got the time periods from the Bible (Feeding of the 5,000 and 2 Peter 3:8) , not based off of scientific periods. They only thing I adjusted is the number of days in a year for the start of the Biblical period. The fact that they align very close with scientific timeline is not silly – Day 1 began 4.53 bya and science says 4.57 bya – That’s only a 0.88% margin of error!
If you still think I contradicted something, please provide a quote instead of saying, “Originally you said day 4 was insects”. I never said that… The only thing I can find that you may have misunderstood was this:
No days were listed there but maybe you were counting days in that list starting with 3.
I don’t write with ChatGPT, but tried out using it for a rewrite of what I originally wrote that Richard responded to with, “I have never seen such convolutions in all my life.” I knew what he meant… he was dismissing my whole argument, but I took the best intended meaning of “convolutions” to mean it was hard to understand. I thought ChatGPT did a fairly good job of rewriting it with headings to compartmentalize it for an easier read, but it still made a few mistakes.
I put a lot of thought into everything I write and am most definitely sincere. If you continue to respond that’s great, but in any case I wish you God’s blessings.
There are birds that don’t fly and is the same with insects so that doesn’t work. All insects crawl or creep which is included in the meaning of “moves”:
- Gen 1:21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
moves (7430. רָמַשׂ ramas) - To creep, move lightly, move about
Insects are very light footed. Also:
- 22b , and let birds multiply on the earth.”
Insects crawl/creep and they multiplied on the earth (both in and out of the water). Birds don’t creep (low to the ground) but walk on two legs.
Where do you see any description of birds (when scripture is clearly talking about real birds) described as creeping? Insects:
-
Gen 1:20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance (sherets) of living creatures, and let birds (oph) fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.”
-
Deut 14:19“ Also every creeping thing (sherets) that flies (oph) is unclean for you; they shall not be eaten.
Breed is not part of any extended (or more recent) definition, but was from Strong’s which you have said before is outdated:
A primitive root; to wriggle, i.e. (by implication) swarm or abound – breed (bring forth, increase) abundantly (in abundance), creep, move.
Here is BDB:
שָׁרַץ verb swarm, teem (Late Hebrew id.; Aramaic crawl, = שֶׁרֶץ, so שִׁרְצָא (rare); Ethiopic germinate, sprout); —
Yes, that is quite amazing design!
“Extended” does not refer to time, it refers to trying to get a word from one language make sense in another language. It is not an intrinsic part of the meaning in the original, but is an attempt to convey the concept of the original in a language where the concepts do not match.
That makes no sense whatsoever. How can “breed” need to be added to the English translation to “make sense” of the original if that concept is not part of the original?
It’s a matter of range of meaning. There are concepts in some languages that just cannot be carried over to another language. What is done then? A word in the second language is selected that comes close. It doesn’t carry the actual meaning of the word from the first language, but it makes sense of that word by providing something close enough to work.
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As Biblical Hebrew is an ancient and no longer used (dead) language, it strikes me that any belief system based solely on understanding that text is on shakey if not dangerous grounds.
IOW you are starting from assumption even before a single word is translated.
Richard
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Yes, I’m starting with the assumption that several hundreds of years of scholarship got things right plus that the amazing abundance of information about that language that has been revealed in the last half-dozen generations is a gift from God.
BTW, biblical Hebrew continued to be read all along, even if not spoken for conversation.
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All hail the mighty humanity. Shame that doesn’t fit with your view of current humanity, especially as it is supposed to apply to al humanity! (but not scholars?)
Richard
The shame is that your understanding is so shallow. As far as I can tell you think that God is impotent.
You are much better of when you just accept what you are told. Your powers of deduction are way off. How you think I see God as impotent is beyond me.
(Unless it has something to do with your misguided view of God and Scripture)
Richard