"What do you think about Islam?" Postscript

[NickolaosPappas (Nick)]

Wow .Yeah very knowlegable hero right there.Wow you completely showed me wrong here by citing a Wikipedia page.Which i can edit right just now and you know i can add whateever i want.But sure.My question is still unanswered though.Till then .See ya!!

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

Sorry? Try reading the historical and ideological background in particular. The aberration of the Crusades is the greatest stain in Christendom. It’s enough to make one invoke the Whore of Babylon.

[NickolaosPappas (Nick)]

By readiong the Wikipedia page?Learn history and accept the truth.Tell me were the Muslims so saints that they were not harassing Christians?Learn some history from actuall sources and stop debating with me.Citing a wikipedia page is laughable.Your distorted history wont change the truth.Trying to make me defend history is laughable.I will let historians speak for the matter.

Heres a book from an Historian who analyzed the whole thing better than your wiki page

Why Does the Heathen Rage?: A Novel of the Crusades: Roberts, J. Stephen:...

[NickolaosPappas (Nick)]

@Klax

It’s enough to make one invoke the Whore of Babylon.

Of course it is!For the average guy like you who learned from School and from pop-culture that “Crusade bad” “Caliphates saints” it is.

I was like that.No more thankfully

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

It’s a novel. An unreviewed novel. By an unknown author.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

@NickolaosPappas

@Klax

It’s enough to make one invoke the Whore of Babylon.

Of course it is!For the average guy like you who learned from School and from pop-culture that “Crusade bad” “Caliphates saints” it is.

I was like that.No more thankfully

I learned no such thing in school. Grammar school. Or from pop-culture. Or from history, which is the only source worth learning from in the matter of the berserk elephant of Christian apostasy.

[NickolaosPappas (Nick)]

Search him up.And i can gift it to you if you want.He cites pretty much eevry known historian on this matter

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

I have. That’s very kind, but no thank you. I’m sure he does Nick. Which doesn’t make him one.

[NickolaosPappas (Nick)]

Yet here you are saying that exactly.Listen the cause of the Crusades was Just.The christians were getting persecuted .Their western brothers wanted to help.Now if their way of thinking shifted and commited attrocities etc etc along the way,thats another topic.But not all the crusaders were like that.As not all the Muslims were slaughtering christians before the Crusaders arrived.That was my point

Care to asnwer my question about Jesus and Muhhabad now?

[beaglelady]

@NickolaosPappas

Well why they happened?.Because Muslims
were massacring and harrasing Christian pilgrims in the Holy Land.They were even destrying Christian sites.Crusaders did what everyone else did in the time of war.You think muslims were some kind of saints and didnt commit attrocities?Everyone in a war commits attrocities.Even the “good” guys.i don defend these of course.Im just saying that aint an argument.My comment was about Muhhamad.Did Jesus ever conquered a whole City and forced people to believe in him?Thats the difference

Nobody is saying any one side is perfect. But you can make the world safe for pilgrimages without herding Jews into their synagogue and burning them alive.

[beaglelady]

I think everyone should look up “Abrahamic religions.” Ask your librarian, Look at amazon. It’s a thing.

Before you dismiss the other guy’s God of Abraham remember that an awful conservative preacher said a while ago, “God does not hear the prayers of a Jew.”

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

@Klax

Which doesn’t make him one.

Legitimate and accurate testimony about locales, history, and yes, science can be had in fictional narratives. On the other hand, qualified academicians can be flat wrong.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

@NickolaosPappas

Yet here you are saying that exactly.Listen the cause of the Crusades was Just.The christians were getting persecuted .Their western brothers wanted to help.Now if their way of thinking shifted and commited attrocities etc etc along the way,thats another topic.But not all the crusaders were like that.As not all the Muslims were slaughtering christians before the Crusaders arrived.That was my point

Care to asnwer my question about Jesus and Muhhabad now?

Have you read the historical and ideological backgrounds. I thought not. Would you go on a pilgrimage from one alien culture side to a war zone in the other’s? Byzantium (Greek) was trying to wage war on the Seljuks (Turk). The Crusades had what to do with following Christ? Preparing the way for His millennial return in fulfilment of the Apocalypse? That was one justification. It’s what Jesus would have done? It’s what He wanted? It was a crusade against Jews throughout Europe as well as in their homeland. The first pogrom in Europe was just up the Roman road from here in York. The crusaders ‘liberated’ Jerusalem from its Arab and Jewish inhabitants by killing one hundred thousand of them. As the first three crusades failed against indigenous Turks and Arabs and incidental Jews in their homelands, the Latin crusaders at last found victory. In Christendom. Over the Greeks. Byzantium was destroyed. Not by Muslims. By Latin Christians. This set an excellent precedent for murdering fellow Christians in Europe. 13 crusades were declared against ‘heretics’. The best was the Albigensian with a million deaths, led by my fellow Leicesterian Simon De Montfort. We named a university in his honour.

I love this understatement don’t you? ‘The use of violence for communal purposes was not alien to early Christians’.

@Dale

@Klax

Which doesn’t make him one.

Legitimate and accurate testimony about locales, history, and yes, science can be had in fictional narratives. On the other hand, qualified academicians can be flat wrong.

So the historical and ideological background is flat wrong and the potboiler is right?

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

@Terry_Sampson

I think we’re back-channeling off-topic; and that you started it by trying to put Nick on the defensive by introducing an off-topic objection.

What, to historically and ideologically ignorant Islamophobia on a thread asking “What do you think about Islam?”.

[Terry_Sampson]

Sorry, check again: you’re in the wrong thread. This is the “What do you think about Islam? Postscript” thread. I ought to know, I started it.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

Sorry, check again, all of my responses are on topic.

[Terry_Sampson]

Hmmm, …

@Terry_Sampson

In my post in the original thread, I intended to focus on several specific verses in the list above and add what I believed was relevant and important commentary. As it happens, I didn’t and don’t intend to do so here. But I will say here, that only the most naive and uninformed theist, agnostic, or atheist would try to tell me that Islam’s Allah and Judaism or Christianity’s God are the same, regardless how many Muslim friends and authorities you know who have told you so. And Islam’s ʿĪsā ibn Maryam is most certainly NOT the New Testament’s Jesus.

@Terry_Sampson

IMO, it is impossible to avoid the conclusion that Islam theology is “replacement theology”, i.e. Islam is deemed to be a correction and replacement of Christianity, in the same way that orthodox Christianity is deemed to be a correction and replacement of Judaism and in the same manner that Baha’i endeavors to correct and replace Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. “Replacement theology”, or "Supersessionism is common in the history of religion.

@Terry_Sampson

It would seem to me that a person who believes that all religions that proclaim one God are equivalent and and equally true is confused by the differences between the multiple “Gods” that the monotheistic religions proclaim and, in purportedly “harmonizing” any two or more of the monotheistic religions, has manufactured a new religion.

Yep!
You’re in the wrong thread. If you want to argue that a Christian’s charge of Islamic supersessionism is Islamophobia, have at it; in which case, I’ll just add you to my “Ignore” list.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

You do, that mate. I’ll keep responding to the Islamophobic content on this thread. I’ve already addressed that there is no supersession in Islam except of apostate Christianity.

[RLBailey (Ray Bailey)]

Please See Jay Smith’s Youtube Pfander Films for the following information!

Within the last year, Islam has been proven to be nothing more than fiction!

I am sorry I missed the bulk of this discussion.
For those of you who do not know, Islam is an entirely fictitious construction. It is “NOT” a replacement of Christianity, though it has a mishmash of Christianity thrown in.

For the latest on the Critical Studies of the Qu’ran you must see my college roommate, Jay Smith, Phd, Youtube site Pfanderfilms.
Jay is leading a world-wide consortium of scholars who are currently debunking Islam through Critical studies of Historical, Textual, and Apologetical processes! these are all processes that Christianity has faced and survived while Islam has not ,until now!

• The Qu’ran was manufactured in the 8th & 9th centuries from Christian, Pagan, Persian, and Anecdotal sources, hundreds of years after the Islamic claims.

• Archeological analysis of coins show ZERO Islamic presence in the sixth and seventh centuries in contrast to Islamic claims of the Qu’ran and its supporting writings…

• Mecca did not exist until long after Qu’ranic claims: Construction of Mosques, which “always face Mecca” archaeologically show they actually pointed toward various other directions, each to a particular center of politico-religious power at the time.

• Stories of Muhammad and Islam migrated from near Petra to Persia, and only then south to Mecca centuries after Quranic claims. The “man” Mohammed is made up of several anecdotal, and real people during that migration, each added in for purposes to fit the time and place. Recently revealed (2020) manuscripts from China during the same block of time that provides names of tribes and locations verifying this point.

• There are many other aspects to this unraveling of Islam that is both frightening and absurd (if not humorous). One of the role-models for Muhammed Was A Christian!

As to the Theology of Islam: Islam is a wholly made-up religion, yet it has it “seeds” in Judeo-Christian Bible, with Ishmael, the “unchosen” son of Abraham.

Each Son was the recipient of Elohim God’s promise to make Abraham’s seed a great nation and as a result, a great religion. Each of these has a “Book” and a “Man” as its source. (Jay Smith has pattern-marked the phrase “The Book and the Man”

• Issac had Twelve grandsons who became the Tribes of Israel. These became the Nation of Isreal, and Judaism, which has the Book (the Tanakh) and the Man (Moses). It became the foundation for Christianity, which has The Book (the New Testament) and The Man (Yeshua Jesus Messiah).

• Ishmael had twelve sons who became the tribes that surrounded Israel and are even now the ancestors of the tribes at war with Israel (and Christianity) Islam claims “A Book & The Man” in Muhammed and the Quran. this is in a copy of Christianity, though it was imitation by pattern, not by plan. It morphed into shape over hundreds of years.

There are hundreds of hours of thoughtful, entertaining, and sometimes scary material unearthed by the consortium of Pfanderfilm’s Jay Smith.

[Terry_Sampson]

@RLBailey

I am sorry I missed the bulk of this discussion.

You haven’t missed anything. There are still some bumper cars on the bump-car court and the buzzer that ends this thread hasn’t buzzed, … yet. Put on a helmet and strap on your seat belt.

@RLBailey

Islam is an entirely fictitious construction.

Amen! I agree completely.

@RLBailey

It is “NOT” a replacement of Christianity,

Whoops! I was going to bump you. If Islam’s not a replacement of Christianity, it’s not because Islam’s not trying, … Islam is trying. That’s its principle raison d’être: to replace whatever it can.
[Same goes for the Baha’i and Noahides, But they are different opponents, IMO.]

P.S. Thanks for the links.