I think you and I see this similarly. I wonder if we (maybe we Modern) humans tend to be IDers at heart after all, even if that design process doesn’t include a god/God of some sort. Are we intellectually too big for our existential breeches?
Are some of the questions we ask absurd, rather than the lack of a satisfying answer indicating that our lives are absurd?
Sometimes I feel like asking about ultimate meaning is like asking what magenta sounds like, or askng my parents to explain how the other one thought.
This tickled me:
These folks are not disillusioned goth teens getting all morose and forlorn with the black pants and the dark eye paints.
I taught a few of these kids and their more upbeat “grunge” peers back in the ‘90s. It’s a shame the more philosophical kids found so little space in their social world, where they could work out their questions and concerns. Many of them were already attempting to forge meaningful paths in their lives, where so much that surrounded them was vapid.
I do like that he works to define his terms somewhat.
Meaning is the WHY that subsumes every why. But while meaning is a bigger purpose, that is not all that it is. It is also a connection with something ultimate and non-contingent. Purpose is local and contingent.
I’m not convinced of his conclusions.
Sisyphus is the poster-child for meaninglessness at least in recent Western thought. And we can easily allow his story to become the interpretive lens for our own. In doing that, the lens is also a filter, though. What are the obvious differences between us and Sisyphus that we forget to see, when we apply this lens/filter?
Primarily Sisyphus’s eternal existence does have a meaning determined by the gods. Sisyphus’s eternal existence was devised to be a punishment. that was the meaning of his eternal life. That is its plan and purpose.
Particularly, if we see no ultimate meaning assigned to our lives our purpose for our existence, we should recognize that they cannot then carry the meaning or purpose of Sisyphus’s.
Once we get through this gate, we can contrast the deliberately established components (and lack of components) that are part of Sisyphus’s existence.
This is a good point. I think it’s important, though, to keep in mind that the value those things will differ, depending on one’s ability to respond to, or invest effort, etc. Jay and I have both brought up our concerns regarding questions of meaning and persons with disabilities (an enormous umbrella category). This can greatly impact what any individual values, how one invests effort, responds to, etc.
The greater challenge is understanding the reverse. How do we see the value of a person, whose ability to invest effort, respond, etc. is different or limited from “average.”
I’m confident, Mitchell, that you haven’t forgotten these things. We can’t fit everything into these posts (the way I appear to be attempt at the moment), but it’s not on everyone’s mind. So I bring it up here.
THis is an interesting way to talk about it. I don’t think I’ve heard meaning talked about as a function of process.
I was still hoping you’d flesh out this question more, but I don’t see that you have.
Answering as broadly as the question seems to be cast at face value: there are many offers of infinite joy given by many religions. Some are more dubious than others. Some, depending on one’s gender, are only limited to half the population. Some of those offers are self-indulgent, others less so.
Roger, this really is the idea, isn’t it? But what kind of meaning in life is there, then, for people in lesser relationships, or whose loving relationships have desolved (I’m thinking particularly of older people who over decades have lost those relationship threads through various forms of atrition.)? Are their lives meanngless?
If you get a chance to read around this thread, I’d be interested in your take on the various ideas other people have proposed. Some are similar to yours, but there’s a good deal of variation even among those.
Your additional questions are worth considering. Thanks for including them. I hope to come back to one or two later today.