What are your thoughts on veganism?

Faith & Science Conversation
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I’ve recently watched a video about someone’s experience with switching to veganism, and was wondering what your thoughts on the movement were. From an Evolutionary Creationist perspective, veganism would seem more the most likely dietary choice because (1) we evolved from animals so it seems somewhat cannibalistic in a way to turn around and eat our evolutionary brothers, (2) it helps animals and animal rights and (3) will have a giant positive impact on the planet. But I can also see some opinions on not wanting to switch.

(Here is that video for reference):

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Having recently watched a documentaries about a (i) a female anaconda consuming her own still-born eggs/offspring, and (ii) eagle chicks eating their smaller siblings and eagle hens eating chicks they can’t feed, I don’t think cannibalism is remotely problematic from an evolutionary perspective.

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Yikes, nature is cruel.

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There is a difference between veganism and primarily plant-based diets. Homo sapiens evolved from omnivores, so there is nothing in evolutionary science that supports the idea that humans are evolved to be herbivores. Veganism is a social and cultural construct tied to religious beliefs or ideologies that are taught and learned that center on consciously avoiding all animal products, it’s not something passed down genetically or required by our biological structure.

Now, is there lots of nutrition research that says that mostly plant-based diets are good for human health compared to diets high in meat and dairy? Yes, plant-based diets are linked with lower rates of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and high blood pressure. Vegan diets can dramatically affect blood chemistry and reverse effects of high cholesterol and high blood pressure and some people have lots of success using vegan diets to control diabetes. But according to my daughter who just took a nutrition course, the “healthiest” human diet is consistently found to be some variation of “Mediterranean,” a diet high in whole grains, fruits, vegetables, omega-three fatty acids, and antioxidants and low in animal fat, processed foods, and refined carbohydrates. But most cultures with “ideal” diets aren’t vegan, people get protein from seafood, poultry, and eggs. You can certainly get enough protein from soy, beans, lentils and legumes in a vegan diet, but many vegans don’t incorporate enough of those foods into their diet and don’t avoid refined carbohydrates and trans fats. There is more to balanced nutrition than simply avoiding meat and animal products.

As for a “Christian” perspective on diet, I guess there has been a revival of fads like the “Daniel Diet” among Christian influencers and I’ve seen more talk about orthorexia as an eating disorder lately. Diet is cultural. There is no such thing as “eating biblically.” Jesus cooked fish for his disciples post-Resurrection, so there is clearly nothing objectively immoral about eating meat. I think there are good discussions to be had around the morality of industrial agriculture and the carbon footprint of meat consumption. I’m convinced there are moral dimensions to deciding to consume less meat and eat more fair trade or local, less processed food, but in my view it’s around creation care and justice issues involved in the global food economy not because eating animal products is itself bad or wrong.

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Completely uninterested in it.

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Aww, where’s the fun in that!

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I’m not a vegan and probably never will be one. But there are a lot of things worth considering, regarding diet.

Jesus declared all foods clean. This means that nothing I eat is going to have some sort of spiritual affect on me. So, decisions I make about what I eat should be made based on other considerations.

With that question completely off the table, we are left with considerations such as:

Health: Seems rational to eat healthy. Take good care of yourself. But veganism does not solve this for everyone. All the plant based protein sources I know of would give my husband permanent migraines. Veganism is simply off the table for him. Diabetics also have quite limited choices about plant-based protein sources, because there are so many carbs in most of them.

Income: What people eat is often determined by what they can afford to eat.

Income again: Preparing fresh animal products takes much more care in storage and preparation. If you don’t have the resources to store, prepare, cook, and again store meat or dairy items, then you will probably not be working with the fresh items. Although animal products prepared for long shelf lives could fit into your life and therefore diet.

Preference: It seems reasonable to be able to eat some things you like.

Morality/Cultural norms: Although we often deny it, culture plays a HUGE role in what we eat and would recognize as food. For example, blood is a common ingredient in some countries. In the US eating blood seems not only distasteful but to some, immoral.

Personal moral choices: Some of my friends find the damage to the environment and the harm to animals that is part of the meat industry to outweigh any pleasure or benefit they would receive for eating meat. If this is important to you, then you shouldn’t eat meat. My friends would also point out that if it isn’t important to you, you are underinformed and haven’t thought about the issue enough.

Apex Predators: We are apex predators. We don’t like to see ourselves as such, though. Unrefined. Too closely associated with our ancient, more animalistic roots. We don’t like to see ourselves as animals.
Cannibalism is a particular type of predation - of one’s own species. No one imagines turkey vultures as cannibals, when they’re dining in my road on roadkill raccoons. Cannibalism for humans would be eating other humans. There is no “sort of “ cannibalism. What we don’t like about this picture is seeing ourselves as somehow similar to the turkey vultures.

These are just a few considerations. I’m sure there are more.

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Environmental issues, effects on global food production (animal husbandry lowers the total food production because it demands more area per produced kg than the cultivation of plants), and the welfare problems within industrial animal husbandry have been the major reasons for vegan or semi-vegan diet among the young people I have discussed with. It is good that these persons have taken the ethical issues seriously but a fully vegan diet & lifestyle is a bit extreme choice IMHO.

We are basically omnivores, not apex carnivores or herbivores. Our digestive system resembles that of pigs in this respect.and our teeth are suitable for an omnivorous diet. We need some ingredients from plants but meat is easier to digest and takes hunger away more easily. Vegan diets are a late invention in human culture, made possible by an abundant production of protein-rich plants and grains. In ancient hunter-gatherer societies, a vegan would probably have died within a few years.

Biblical scriptures do not ban the use of animal products, so a vegan diet cannot be called ‘biblical’. The reason why Daniel and his friends did not want to eat the meat in Babylon was not veganism. The meat had probably been offered to the local gods and was not ‘kosher’, so Daniel seemed to think that it would defile him.

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Veganism is a reasonable ethical / moral position, IMHO and I can respect those who hold to it. I believe one can be ‘vegan’ & 'Christian’, or non-vegan & Christian. So, while there may be overlapping moral standards, I suspect being a vegan, vegetarian, or omnivore is orthogonal relative to Christianity.

Personally, I feel that I should move to more of a vegetarian and vegan-adjacent practice, for environmental and ethical preferences.

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The fun begins on my smoker.

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Haha. Virtually speaking, I’ll be joining you.

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Frequently my view boils down to, “If you wouldn’t kill it yourself, don’t eat it”.

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Ted Bundy endorses this statement.

Vinnie

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