What are the components of a person? body, mind, spirit, soul?

Sure. Don’t believe in that obviously. Seems to come from an attempt to explain original sin. My explanation is the corruption of that memetic inheritance we have from Adam and Eve, transmitted by human communication media – bad habits in the way we talk, and think, and do.

Enlightened self interest above all! I manifestly lack what you generously attribute, or I’d fare much better here. Or not be here in the first place!

Honesty, too, then. :wink:

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Well, my point was that Creationism (not to be confused with YEC or OEC) says that God creates souls and puts them into individuals. Traducianism, on the other hand, says that souls are kind of an inherent, inborn thing inherited from the two parents.

I think Traducianism fits comfortably with evolutionary theory, but I would need to double-check on that.

I don’t believe in either. I go with Paul in 1 Cor 15 who says that the physical body comes first and spiritual body comes after growing from the physical body like a plant from a seed. This is one of the reasons I don’t like the word “soul” because it seems to be connected with pre-existence.

I’m not so certain that this is what Paul is saying in 1 Corinthians 15. I’m assuming you’re referring particularly to 1 Cor. 15:44b-49?

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I don’t understand. What is it that Paul says here which is not clear?

35 But some one will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” 36 You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. 39 For not all flesh is alike, but there is one kind for men, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish. 40 There are celestial bodies and there are terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.

42 So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 But it is not the spiritual which is first but the physical, and then the spiritual. 47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; and as is the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. 49 Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall[b] also bear the image of the man of heaven. 50 I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

What Paul says is not what is unclear. What I am saying is that I don’t agree with your interpretation of this passage–namely that the soul grows from the physical body like a plant, or that the soul is something that is created over time. I don’t think this is what Paul is saying here.

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And I don’t believe in the soul of Plato and the Gnostics at all! I only believe in what Paul is talking about. The physical body as a seed from which the spiritual body grows is just the metaphor that Paul uses. If you have a problem with it then you can take that up with Paul. Regardless, he is crystal clear about the physical body being first

Then what exactly are you saying, my friend?

Quoting Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 is fine with me. I don’t have to look for excuses to discount what he says and twist the words to mean just the opposite of what he says.

And as for what I believe… The spirit is created by choices of the living organism. I have said so many times.

Friend,

Yes. I know what you have said, and I don’t believe that 1 Corinthians 15 bears that out.

I don’t have a problem with the passage, obviously. You’re right, Paul does say, in the passage, that the physical comes first.

In this passage, Paul seems to be talking more about the resurrection, and not really about what you’re describing.

Anyway, this seems like a fruitless discussion, so I’m going to end it. Thank you for conversing with me.

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See, you handle it far better than me, despite provocation.

I appreciate your words. Thanks be to the Holy Spirit. :slight_smile:

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