What about embodied cognition?

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

New post to discuss the question that is posed,"How do you fit embodied cognition in to this?

[Swamidass (Peaceful Science)]

Thanks for your moment of sanity in all this. I’ll respond more later, but had a question…

@AMWolfe

Incidentally, while we’re on the topic, I find it curious that the premiere organization of Christian field linguists, SIL International, leans largely non-Chomskian (with some exceptions). One might expect an organization with an American Evangelical base to lean toward the theoretical framework that resonates with ID… yet it doesn’t. And, ironically, it takes a fair amount of flak for that by Chomskian linguists in the secular academy. Quite a bit of irony there!

How do you fit embodied cognition in to this?

For:

Six views of embodied cognition - Psychonomic Bulletin & Review

Against:

The poverty of embodied cognition - Psychonomic Bulletin & Review

I seem some large strengths of this view, as embodiment may be a precondition for theory of mind and for language. Where does this sit in relationship to Chomsky, who seems to be presenting a more abstract view of cognition?

[AMWolfe (Andrew M. Wolfe)]

Excellent question. I’ve done very little reading on embodied cognition, but I’ve just written an email to tag-team a handful of friends who may be interested to jump into the fray as ringers for me…

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

Hopefully by dividing this post things can stay more on topic and advance with a better tone.

[Chris_Falter]

Hi @jpm - Appreciate the moderation. Please note that my post should not have been moved, as it has nothing to do with embodied cognition and everything to do with the language origin/evolution discussion. Thanks!

[jpm (Phil McCurdy)]

Done- I hope. Will be a little out of sequence. Thank you for your patience.

[Swamidass (Peaceful Science)]

@AMWolfe

Excellent question. I’ve done very little reading on embodied cognition, but I’ve just written an email to tag-team a handful of friends who may be interested to jump into the fray as ringers for me…

Still curious their response.

I find it interesting that an offhand and correct comment calling Chomsky a giant of the field (as he absolutely is) led to a torrent of correction, as if I endorsed all of his ideas. That, I find, to be really remarkable. Can you explain it to me?

The irony here is that I am actually, in my professional work, sharply critical of Chomsky’s approach to language. His approach underlied what I see as the largely failed effort of AI in the 60s, 70’s and 80’s, which might be finally coming to an end with IBM Watson. In its place, the statistical approaches like (HMM, deep learning, LSI, latent semantic indexing) are actually where my professional expertise is in, and where we have been able to apply these approaches both to text, and also to biology.

And on a philosophical level, I am much more drawn to embodied cognition, as it is seem more coherent with the Incarnation, explains why the early AI projects failed, and also creates some of the most believable conceptions of how strong AI could arise (see Westworld), if it is at all possible.

None of that, however, detracts from Chomsky being a true giant in the field. Recognizing that does not mean I agree with his conception of everything. For the conversations we have had, however, none of his failings detract from the point. How does recognizing this make me a Chomsky devotee, and uninformed about the field?

@Chris_Falter

Chomsky famously has refused to acknowledge any value in probabilistic language models. Meanwhile, Google Translate and Bing Translate use them to great effect.

EDIT: iirc, Alexa is more accurate in listening to and transcribing language on the fly than the average adult. And probabilistic models are behind that capability, of course.

Very confused by this comment @Chris_Falter. Alexa is using a probabilistic model. How can probabilistic models be behind Alexa when Alexa is dependent on probabilistic models?

[Chris_Falter]

“Behind” = “the capability that supports Alexa behind the scenes”

[gbrooks9 (George Brooks)]

@Swamidass

I find it interesting that an offhand and correct comment calling Chompsky a giant of the field (as he absolutely is) led to a torrent of correction, as if I endorsed all of his ideas. That, I find, to be really remarkable. Can you explain it to me?

Ugh… please… I’m dying here… (no resurrection pun intended!)…

Chomp-Skee ain’t the spelling !

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It is the more euphonious Chom-skee that is the correct spelling …

Noam Chomsky

[Swamidass (Peaceful Science)]

@gbrooks9

Chomp-Skee ain’t the spelling !

Never was good as spelling =).

[Swamidass (Peaceful Science)]

@Chris_Falter

“Behind” = “the capability that supports Alexa behind the scenes”

Sorry, apparently I read a typo into your comment there too =).

[Jay313 (Jay Johnson)]

@AMWolfe

Excellent question. I’ve done very little reading on embodied cognition

Embodied Cognition: A Field Guide
Slightly dated (2003), but a good overview.