Whales did (NOT) evolve

[Bill_II]

@EDC1

But you see I dont see God directly intervening in other natural processes such as the various gravitational effects on earth.

But we are told rather directly in the OT that He does. You may not see it and science can not detect it but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

[AMWolfe (Andrew M. Wolfe)]

@EDC1

You’re arguing that all the examples given by ID proponents can be explained naturally, without a direct intervention by God.

Am I?

No, I’m not. I’m merely saying that [1] I haven’t been convinced by ID arguments, that [2] as with any would-be scientific claim, they bear the burden of proof, and that [3] my faith does not require them to be true.

This is far from the claim that mainstream science has successfully explained everything that ID proponents point to as evidence of design. That would be a more substantial claim to make, and it would itself bear the burden of proof. But no, I don’t have the time or inclination to track down every claim ID has ever made and declare mainstream science the undisputed winner on every point. (I’m not sure that’s even possible, not yet at least!)

@EDC1

you also claim that God is directly involved in the process of evolution, but He just isn’t naturally detectable. That sounds familiar!

If by “that sounds familiar!” you mean that our position is similar to some strains of ID, then you’re right! For those handful of ID proponents that embrace common ancestry, there is not really a huge difference between them and us. Of course, many of the more vocal ID voices do not embrace common ancestry. And I’ll leave it there because what I was about to say about this contingent of the ID camp would not have been terribly charitable.

@EDC1

I would argue that in your analogy, the inference is that an Intelligence did indeed input to that individual.

…and this is a logical inference, not a scientific inference, unless you feel there is something here that is repeatable, makes predictions about the natural world, or otherwise fits into established scientific theory.

@EDC1

I remember when the Holy Spirit first surprised John Wimber at a meeting, and he was rather shocked and confused by it all. Then that evening he received a phone call from a friend, who knew nothing of the meeting, telling him the Lord had told him to ring John and say ‘That was Me!’. And the rest is history!

Like many BioLogos groupies (if I can deride myself in this jocular way), I welcome the Spirit’s work in the Church and in my life personally. I may be skeptical about some things (which is Biblical, in fact), but I was mentored in my early Christian life by an old-school “Pentycostal” (as he pronounced it, often with a smile) and this has never left me. Nothing the Spirit does is anti-science.

[EDC1]

Ok, thanks for your response.

[AMWolfe (Andrew M. Wolfe)]

@EDC1

Ok, thanks for your response.

Once you start arguing, it’s actually against the Forum’s rules to stop arguing using a nice pleasant response like that, you know. It’s considered very rude.

Just kidding, have a nice day.

[Mervin_Bitikofer]

@AMWolfe

Once you start arguing, it’s actually against the Forum’s rules to stop arguing using a nice pleasant response like that, you know. It’s considered very rude.

It might catch a few of us mods by surprise too --knocks us off balance for a bit. Isn’t every argument supposed to end with somebody storming off just after announcing that everybody else here is a heretic? Keep the surprises coming, everybody!

[That is partly in jest – I magnify our ‘persecutions’ here (I think). This is really a largely well-behaved crowd.]