Please discuss Verneshot Theory here, so serious topics are not derailed elsewhere.
There is already a thread on Verneshot theory in the Education forum, and it was started by @adamjedgar .
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Thanks for catching this.
The education forum focus as stated below is quite different from the Faith & Science forum, and discussion of Verneshot theory probably belongs here anyways. @adamjedgar might consider moving his posts over.
Welcome to the Education Forum!
This forum is meant to be a place of encouragement and support for Christian parents, home educators, and classroom teachers who accept an old earth, evolution, climate change, and other areas of scientific consensus.
Additionally, we hope it will foster collaboration and community for those who are using or are interested in using the BioLogos Integrate curriculum . Here you can share ideas about effective instructional practices, ask others for resource recommendations, hear how others navigate sticky issues within their school or church communities, come alongside brothers and sisters in Christ who are facing challenges, and more.
So the education forum is a place where fictional and nonserious topics are discussed?
Is that your view of education? Given i hold an education degree, im just a little annoyed to be honest.
Who decides what is serious?
I read statements on a Christian forum from a moderator back in 2019 who says the bible isnt important or necessary in salvation…that is serious, but the Verneshot theory isnt?
Volcanic eruptions on earth are not strong enough to launch things into space, unlike on Io.
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how do you know that?
given the scale of the earth to its own atmosphere in the image below, i think its pretty obvious even from a visual perspective your claim there is wrong.
Isnt is science that says the historical account of the bible cannot be accurate since “what we observe” leads us to a different conclusion?
Well when i look at the image above it seems to me that a huge sphere that is the earth with a tiny atmosphere could easily eject matter far enough up into space such that the gravitation pull would cause a catastrophic impact after re-entry.
If continental rifting occurs above this location, an explosive release of the built up gas may occur, potentially sending out a column of crust and mantle into a globally dispersive, super-stratospheric trajectory. It is unclear whether such a column could stay coherent through this process, or whether the force of this process would result in it shattering into much smaller pieces before impacting. The pipe through which the magma and gas had travelled would collapse during this process, sending a shockwave at hypersonic velocity that would deform the surrounding [craton](Craton - Wikipedia).
A verneshot event is likely to be related to nearby continental flood basalt events, which may occur before, during or after the verneshot event. This may help in searching for evidence for the results of verneshot events; Verneshot - Wikipedia
I think you are confusing the claim objects left orbit with the idea that they re-enter and impact the earth. My understanding is that Verneshot proposes re-entry of the impactor (otherwise, even a dumb individual would be driven to ask, “if it escapes gravity, where did the impactor come from in the theory?”)
I have to make a criticism at this point, the complete lack of responses… I honestly thought a lot more Biologos individuals would be familiar with Verneshot. It provides signficant challenges to Biologos beliefs however does offer evidence in support of YEC and yet clearly this group has little to say on the mattert. Surely there is a serious rebuttal or agreement with the theory on offer?
What is the Biologos answer to the following for example?
Verneshots have been proposed as a causal mechanism explaining the statistically unlikely contemporaneous occurrence of continental flood basalts, mass extinctions, and “impact signals”
Physics. Rock strata would shatter from the strain long before enough pressure built up to launch a projectile that high. From the geological record, the most violent eruptive events ever (e.g. Yellowstone) didn’t throw large solid objects to more than 1km (though marble-sized pumice has been observed in an eruption column as high as 20km!). Car-sized solid blocks just don’t get very high.
Um, no it doesn’t – the necessary conditions are just too rare.
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The formula for the maximum height of a ballistic path is given by
Mh=h+(v0⋅sin(θ))2/(2⋅g)
and conveniently, all you have to do is go to this handy calculator
to relate Initial Launch Velocity to maximum height.
Where space begins is defined arbitrarily as our atmosphere extends well into the void, but 100 kilometers straight up is commonly accepted.
It is the directed energy to accelerate a mass from zero to Initial Launch Velocity that is the limiter. A sudden release of energy must be preceded by a contained buildup of potential energy. That is constrained by the mechanical limitations of rock.
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ok, but how does that exclude the miracle of the biblical flood?
As an example upon which to reflect, you believe that a divine being provided the mechanisms that saw the initiation of the universe right and that this was obviously a miracle (because the universe clearly come from nothing originally and God spoke it into existence)…so how exactly are observations we make today that apparently restrict God and his power such that nothing but a small rock could be miraculously ejected outside of the earths atmosphere
I ask that before you answer the above question you look at the image below…considering the scale in the point of view of the image below…I think its pretty obviously visually that your argument there is fundamentally deficient!
For starters, the miracle of the Biblical flood has nothing to do with launching rocks into space. Why?? That is neither scientific nor Scriptural.
I see an impressive gravity well.
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Because God does not play dice with the universe, or silly games changing the laws of physics – He is faithful, which means His laws for the universe operate the same today, yesterday, and tomorrow. Otherwise you have Loki.
The math doesn’t lie, plus the conditions proposed for a possible Verneshot are extremely narrow.
So just say it’s all a miracle and stop judging the scriptures according to science! YEC sets up science as a measure of the truth of scripture, which is idolatry, besides making Christians look like idiots.
This is meaningless. Your subjective reaction to a picture of our planet is not reality and has nothing to do with the laws God established for His universe. One may as well post an image of a balloon and claim it shows that if the balloon poppeed it could kill someone – there is no rational connection involved.
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Amen! It is adding to the scripture – and doing so on an emotional basis, not anything related to the text.
With quite fragile rocks in comparison to the forces required to launch large objects into space.
And very, very little water in comparison with the volume of the crust.
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