Unobservability of an Uncaused Cause

It’s all three.

You can get to something like that by seeing the universe having a past that proceeds to infinity. And an unobservable being that is unaware of its action is about as close as you’ll ever get to nothing.

Why unaware?

Because I’d never call a person nothing.

I don’t understand. That looks like a non-sequitur to me.

I should have first asked what you meant by saying it’s all three.

Why? It’s from nothing, from an infinite number of past events, and from an uncaused cause.

Because it’s sayable, doesn’t mean it’s thinkable.

Aye, syntax vs. semantics.

Can you please expand on that a little more?

I think that there i8s another possibility that people have not considered. The universe is composed of time and space. Time we know is very precise even though it is relative. It is based on the motion of the sun and the planets which began with the Big Bang and has never ceased. Time is based on Newtonian momentum that definitely Does Have a Cause and Effect.

Space on the other hand is based on another kind of motion now called Thermal Energy. Thermal energy also began with the Big Bang. Thermal energy is stored in the motion of every molecule and no molecule can lose all its thermal energy. Newtonian motion is simple and direct. Thermal motion is complex and indirect. The effect of thermal motion is to seek out and fill all vacuums, that is to fill space and spaces limited by gravity. I do not see cause and effect with thermal energy.

God created the universe in such a way as to have diverse ways to creating reality, not subject to our limited scientific understanding.

But then again, who would ever need to investigate the claim someone makes of possessing a hotel with an infinite number of rooms?

Not sure how familiar you are with the Christian apologist Bill Craig, but the way he handles this subject is just appalling.

Physicists have decided this is contrary to the findings of quantum physics.

Yes. For this reason, determining whether reality is 2 or 3 or both is not something physicists expect to answer. It becomes more of a question for philosophy and religion.

I’m confused, have they decided space is or is not infinitely divisible?

Notice that it’s philosophy or thinking that gives us the possible statements to begin with.

Not. At least that is one way of understanding quantum physics – to mean that space-time is not continuous but discrete on the Plank scale. At the very least, as @T_aquaticus says about unobservable causes, this is another of those things where cannot distinguish the two. It is at least effectively discrete. Continuity is a feature of mathematical spaces, and we have long been challenging a lot of the presumptions that such mathematical constructs describe reality itself.

These are synonymous:

And so you (plural pronoun) will be like God determining not only good and evil, but even reality itself.

Or as Sam Harris said, “we are all capable of it.”

That kind of makes sense. It seems as if it’s effectively both. But it’s not either. In a way it’s impossible to empirically verify.

Kind of like whether reality is objective or subjective.

And the math works the same whether the universe begins in the present or the past.

And consciousness too :sunglasses:

I don’t know if that is entirely true. Perhaps there was a first universe which then produced other universes through causes.

We would also have to define what nothing is. If we have a spacetime with quantum properties that is devoid of matter and energy, is that nothing? Does the presence of spacetime and quantum properties count as something?