“It can hardly be supposed that a false theory would explain, in so satisfactory a manner as does the theory of natural selection, the several large classes of facts above specified. It has recently been objected that this is an unsafe method of arguing; but it is a method used in judging of the common events of life, and has often been used by the greatest natural philosophers … I see no good reason why the views given in this volume should shock the religious feelings of any one. It is satisfactory, as showing how transient such impressions are, to remember that the greatest discovery ever made by man, namely, the law of the attraction of gravity, was also attacked by Leibnitz, “as subversive of natural, and inferentially of revealed, religion.” A celebrated author and divine has written to me that “he has gradually learnt to see that it is just as noble a conception of the Deity to believe that He created a few original forms capable of self-development into other and needful forms, as to believe that He required a fresh act of creation to supply the voids caused by the action of His laws.””–Charles Darwin, “Origin of Species”
Just for the record, my parents did make me, or at least that’s the story they tell.
things can be in either a natural or supernatural state. A natural state is observable, measurable, comprehendible in some sence.
A supernatural State is Unobservable, unmeasurable, transcendent of comprehension.
This is where Mi and I miscommunicated i think…
Super-natural is not a lack of human understanding nor is it magical (illusion), it is outside the system completely. Its a separate category altogether.
That is why quantum mechanics say superposition (I think?). The position is unknowable. Thus a supernatural position. In a billion years will we ever know the position? … no.
Honestly I don’t know about black holes specifically. There is developing theories’. One I heard was that BH could be indeterminate quantum states? Pure potentiality is a supernatural position as nothing has actualized in which to measure. I believe the universe was created as pure potentiality which is a juxtaposition of pure Actuality (God). Both 100% potential and 100% actual are Supernatural states. If black holes are remnants from creation, they well could be things in which still are pure potentiality, spaces/ holes/ negation of actuality. So they would be defined as supernatural. Just speculating…
I am arguing that the BB singularity is a supernatural state by all definition. Pure Actuality is also a supernatural state. God is by definition pure actuality, the greatest possible state of being.
Magic is an illusion of something real. magic is a lie.
If we say Supernatural = magic, we are making a category error.
That doesn’t make sense to me. I don’t see how something becomes supernatural just because us humans can’t comprehend it. If this were the case, then most of nature used to be supernatural and has not become most natural as we learn more about nature.
Black holes are naturally produced by matter and gravity. We can find examples of black holes that were produced by observed supernovae, as an example.
That is a good observation. I am arguing a category of things that are real but outside of human logic and reason and always will be. Do you think a supercomputer will ever be able to finalise all the digits of PI? I would argue no Pi is irrational yet real. we can understand it as a infinite non repeating series, but we will never know it in fullness.
Ok I claim no expertise. The math points to an non natural state in black holes.
If we say Singularity = Supernatural, we are making a category error.
The formation of Black Holes has been confirmed by Gravitational Wave Detectors. The theory behind them has developed since Einstein’s equations of General Relativity. They are not supernatural, even if the physics of the singularity remains unknown.
The question becomes can it be known? or are there categories of things that remain real yet eternally outside of the system. Isn’t this What Godel proved in math?
BioLogos, like many others, seems to fall into the trap of thinking that humans live in the material physical world rather than the human world of history. This world is continually changing and we must change with it, but it does not evolve as plants and animals evolve.
Even so Darwin and Dawkins say that evolution is based on competition for resources, which is false. Competition is war, and nature is not at war with itself. Humans could exist if we were at war with others, contrary to what MAGA insists. True evolution that comes from GOD is adaptation the world and others so we can best work together for the best of all or Love.
GOD is Love. We best know Who GOD is, how to love GOD, others. the universe, and ourselves though Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Savior, and the Logos.
True, though an odd concept to Western minds that want responsibility to add up to 100%!
That’s the benefit of repeated testing and multiple minds doing it. If ten people look a second and then third time and it still looks like a tiger, it’s probably a tiger.
But did it change it for physics? I’d compare this to the circles in the video: a singularity indicates that our axioms are lacking and thus we need a new one that gives a bigger circle.
Maybe when you were in 9th – when I taught 9th grade science it was definitely more than “rote learning” (and my sister taught science via a sort of Socratic method, even farther from rote learning).
I guess I look at it differently. It is obvious to me that black holes are part of nature and are created through natural processes, so whatever state they have it would be a natural one.
As someone who earned varsity letters in three different high school sports I beg to differ: competition was a means to help each other improve. When I first broke the five-minute mile “barrier”, it wasn’t war with anyone, it was a challenge to others to do the same.
The Selfish Gene is Thanos. It is inevitable. Whenever you have a population of imperfect replicators competing for limited resources there are going to be genes that increase the likelihood of an individual having more grandchildren than others. This gene will be passed on at a higher rate and move towards fixation within the population. Inevitable. This is especially true with sexual reproduction where genes are unlinked from the genes around them on the chromosome. It gets a bit weirder with asexual reproduction where you get deleterious mutations hitchhiking with beneficial mutations at a much higher rate.
That maybe logical. but it is not scientific. It is not verifiable. Therefore, you are saying that evolution is not a scientific theory, but based on philosophical theory that you believe to be true, and therefore has the same standing as MAGA.
Maybe not rote as such, but they are hardly going to challenge evolutionary theory. They do not have the knowledge or understanding. Conceptualisation does not come easily, and , judging by the response I get here, would appear to not come at all to some. To crit evolution you need to understand what the process is and what it’s scope is. As i can’t get anyone here to define it, how is a child going to understand? They will just accept the it can be done and that there is no such things as ID, or IC, because that its what is taught. I very much doubt that either will be given more than a cursory dismissal.
Until fairly recently ecology was not recognized as a natural process, Evolution alone was accepted as the cause of natural change. Now most people understand that evolution and ecology go hand in hand. Evolutionary change is caused by ecological change, except for evolutionists like Richard Dawkins and BIoLogos who need to catch up so evolution stops being an ideology and becomes a science based on evidence.
It doesn’t matter whether the change is caused by climatic or ecological pressure Nature cannot diagnose or solve it. Nature (evolution) has no guiding intelligence.
