I am not submitting a college thesis…it is more like real life interaction. I discuss, think aloud, ask questions, ge answers, answer questions. Stupid things are said, wrong things are said, some wisdom or knowledge might come out too. It feels to cold and acedemic to have a rehearsed, thought out, revised, and polished post, more like a blog. Though I do try to edit typos, and do revise some things, but that is to make it clear, not to redact my thoughts. My posts aren’t a final draft for a thesis. I have typos, my mind changes, I am still discovering, still learning…
Just as you watched me go from a OEC to an EC. Would you rather I be stubborn and close minded, never change my mind, but have ‘perfect’ posts?
Hmmmm. I guess we have different definitions of that word? If you aren’t perfect, you are flawed or have a flaw in you that removes perfection. But I guess that is a material world definition.
As one can look at a child born without an arm and see them “perfect” as in how God intended them to be.
What about Rom 5:12
“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—”
It says death entered through one man, Adam. The only way for us to be born dead, we be if Adam was born dead, and all of us through Adam.
Vs 13 “To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.“
That says sin was in the world before Adam. But the wages of sin or charges of sin (death) were not there until the law came.
Are are you saying that we are all born (spiritually) dead, and all born sinners (human, not God) and it was the revealing/coming of the law that revealed to us that we are sinners and dead. We were always dead sinners, we just didn’t know it until the law showed that to us.
That kind of makes sense to me and agrees with scripture…but for the terminology. In order to have death, you need to have had a life first. Before you are physically born, you are not considered dead, you are non-existent. How could we be created/born (spiritually) dead?
That is where the ‘traditional’ narrative makes more sense. That we created spiritually alive and with God, and it is only when we sin, that those wages are death.
I disagree with this. Animals and trees are living things. But they don’t have a spirit. I have always thought of them as spiritually non-existent, but I guess they could be considered spiritually dead in that context.
But I guess if you mean all of creation was created to give Him glory, and in that, we are no less wonderful. A the heavens, stars, animals, and humans who do their purpose, all declare His glory. So in that sense, no less wonderful.
But I can have a robot or a worker or a slave to chores/tasks for me. But none of those seem to give me as much joy as my child, who had a choice, to do things for me, or as I would. In that sense, I think the children of God who do chose His will, are more wonderful than the rest of creation.
He also made a very finely tuned universe for human existence, which makes it seem like He thinks we are more wonderful than the rest of creation.
So I think you (or myself) has convinced me of your stance in many areas. But I still can understand that God created us to be be an image bearer of Him.
Unless you are saying, He did create us as an image bearer of Him, in that He created us dead, and needing to have Him live in us to be His image bearer. So life only comes through Him.
Or for a biblical analogy, like a tree, that can only produce fruit from the living waters of God.
I have always said God created us to depend on Him. I think I have been preaching exactly what you claim. I was just wording differently and from a different perspective. I kind of like your perspective though, thanks for sharing that.
Though other language used like redemption and restoration is used. Like we once were alive, we died, and need to be restored back to life.
I am hoping there are some that come out to regute this, or think of reasons or challenges that I could not, to test it further.
Can you expand on that one?