Oops… should I have avoided the reference to man? Human centered religion, as if religion centers on God’s love for human beings.
Oh… John Piper nailed this subject, and James Smith did a real service to the theology of a God centered religion in his Letters to a Young Calvinist 
No, the problem is the same whether man-centered or human-centered religion. If God’s greatest love is for his own glory, then God is basically a narcissist, no matter what flowery language the theology dresses itself in. I’m intimately familiar with Piper. I was YRR probably before you were born.
The problem in the present discussion is that we’re talking about evolution and original sin, meaning the “first” morally culpable “sin.” That occurred long before organized “religion” appeared on the scene, whether human- or God-centered. I’m glad to talk about the historical roots and appearance of “God-consciousness,” if you want, but shamans, spiritism, totems, etc., appeared long before permanent temples such as Gobekli Tepe. Was that man-centered or God-centered religion? Do Piper’s categories even apply? (Hint: no.)
Let’s turn that around. God the Father’s overflowing love for others manifests itself in his love for the Son and Spirit. The creation of other forms of life, culminating in a creature capable of choosing to love both God and other creatures, flows naturally from the overflowing love of God. If God’s overflowing love is primarily directed inward toward the Trinity, why would God create other life in the first place? Just to show off? Makes no sense.
Michael Heiser’s do 
which makes for some rich theology!
And a James Jordan lecture was tacking in the same direction
Maybe by a few. Early in my YRR years, and while the term never really fit me, a woman prophesied over me to the chagrin of my pastor who was a student of Sproul and mentored by Ravenhill, that I would not be a reader of books
God is the only being for whom it is proper to worship.
Have you read Piper’s Desiring God?
Yes. I don’t own it anymore, but just glancing at one bookcase, I see Piper’s The Pleasures of God (1991), The Justification of God (1993), Future Grace (1995), and God’s Passion for His Glory: Living the Vision of Jonathan Edwards (1998). I keep them around as reminders. I was done with that theology around 20 yrs ago, and a big reason was his “Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood” junk.
Again, that’s not the question. We were talking about God’s overflowing love resulting in the creation of physical creatures able to love him and others. The question wasn’t who or what is worthy of worship. I wasn’t talking about God creating humanity for the sake of worshipping him. That’s a narcissistic vision of a small god.
God is joyful in himself and wants to increase his joy? Enlightened self-interest:
Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Hebrews 12:2
Yes that is the question. This is the most important question.
I’m pretty sure you can read Desiring God and not be able to discern Piper’s position as a complementarian. But the opening of that book, and the way God’s love for himself is expounded upon, that was epic.
God’s love for himself also neatly resolves Euthyphro’s Dilemma. I wrote about it in an intro to ethics. That was a fun class having recently read Desiring God, which was the only book I read from Piper.
In conjunction with God’s grace!
Hmmm… I more inclined to see God’s love for himself as the bond between his grace and justice. Neither of which is contrary to his nature.
From the redeemed sinner’s perspective, it’s all about grace, I guess is what I was thinking.
That’s not the question in this thread. You can start a new one on that most important question, but it’s not what we were discussing.
Joyful in the loving communion of the Trinity, and wanting share that love? That speaks to a love spilling over its banks to bring multitudes into God’s love. Self-love is the opposite. Self-directed love that creates worshippers is by definition narcissistic.
“The climax of God’s happiness is the delight He takes in the echoes of His excellence in the praises of His people.”
John Piper
God is the only being for whom this is moral.
Scratch out the middle of Hebrews 12:2 in your Bible then, or make like Thom Jefferson and cut it out, because it absolutely speaks to Jesus’ motivation. And it’s not selfish, like you appear to want it to make it. It’s built into us, finding gratification in loving sacrifice.
(Fathers can be pleased by their children’s praise, and Father too. What is the first petition in the Lord’s Prayer? It reflects the desire of the petitioner’s heart.)
the twin parables…
The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field. When a man found it, he hid it again, and then in his joy went and sold all he had and bought that field.
Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.
Matthew 13:44-46
God would be lying if he said he wasn’t the most valuable thing there is, right? Is anyone going to tell him he isn’t? He is the Main Thing worth knowing.
Read that again. You’re making the case for me.
It’s an absurd statement on every level. Piper has no more insight into God’s interior life than the rest of us mere mortals. How does he know what the climax of God’s happiness is? More troubling is the fact that what gives God the greatest delight is “His excellence” reflected back in the praises of his people. How is that not the purest form of self-love? I’m sorry, but Piper’s theology results in a narcissistic god.
You should know me a little better than that by now. But whatever …
Of course Jesus didn’t act out of selfish motives. Maybe that should give us a clue about the heart of God. Let’s take a look at Heb 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
What was the joy set before him? Was it sitting down at the right hand of God to receive praise from the redeemed, or was it in bringing many sons and daughters to glory through his sacrifice?
Fathers don’t delight in their children’s praise; fathers delight in their children because they love them. As God says through Jeremiah,
Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight ? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him,” declares the Lord.
God’s motivation is an overflowing love for his children. What gives him “delight” isn’t their praise; it’s their return into loving relationship with him.
Someone who loves another and holds them in esteem praises them, and it brings pleasure to the one praised. What world do you live in?
I am pleased when one of my children thinks I am a good dad. Likewise in the relationship between husbands and wives.
I notice that you did not address the first petition in the Lord’s Prayer.
Sure, but we’re talking about God’s motives for creating. You don’t love your children and delight in them because you want their praise, do you? The loving relationship comes first, the results after.
Good gosh. You’re on a roll. You didn’t address my every point either, but I’d be glad to talk about the Lord’s prayer:
Jesus prays that God’s name be “hallowed” (regarded as Holy). The “petitioner’s heart” reflects an already existing relationship of love for God and a hope that all would be brought into that same relationship.
Anything else I missed?
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.