The Origin of “Original Sin and the Fall”

@jstump and Chad Meister have edited a new book! It’s a Multi-view book, which highlights 5 Original Sin doctrine perspectives. For a small glimpse into what the views they cover, check out Jim’s post about them. For the whole story, you’ll have to get the book. :wink:


This is completely contrary to the bible. It said we literally ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. There is no room for evolution or interpretation. We were clearly created separate from monkeys. :man_facepalming: The similarities in us and monkeys are obviously just because we are similar species… minus conscience/knowledge of right and wrong and more complex minds and bodies. We really mustn’t stray from the creation story, for when we do we become heretics denying the divinity of God almighty and Jesus Christ as well. You mean to tell me Jesus was a evolved monkey? And that the fall and original sin did not happen? Seems like you are disbelieving in the nature of sin than mankind has and is…far from Genesis we stray…today for you I will pray.

I for one day original sin did not happen. It’s does not exist. But first you must clarify what you believe it is.

Original sin begin as the idea that all humans are guilty of the sins of Adam and Eve. That even small kids are born guilty of Adam and Eve’s sin. That if a unbaptized baby died, it went to purgatory or hell because it was guilty of Adam and Eve’s sin. That’s a concept not found in the Bible at all.

They also say that because of Adam and Eve’s sin, it caused all humans after them to be born with flesh that craves sin. That implies , from a literal interpretation, that prior to that Adam and Eve had a body that was not corrupted by the desire to sin.

So if they biologically could not sin, how did their flesh get enticed into sinning by the serpent? It’s clear their flesh was already susceptible to sin.

So if there flesh was already susceptible to sin, how is their flesh any different from ours? Another question to consider is that if Adam and Eve was immortal, and not biologically geared to sin, why was there the two trees in the garden? If death was let into the world, and death was just destruction of the body , and they were immortal the why was there a tree of life in the garden? Is they did not need the tree of life because they could not die, and if they would only need the tree because they were dying because of sin which meant they would be cast out of the garden it makes the tree absolutely useless.

If they were not susceptible to sin because they were not born sinful like everyone after them then why was there a tree of the knowledge of good and bad in the garden? How would it tempt them if they were different from us and not able to be tempted?

A better solution is that both trees served a purpose. The tree of life is what sustained them. Only God is immortal. Not even the angels are immortal. Adam and Eve could die physically. They are from the tree to continue their existence. The tree of life have them just that… life. They ate it to live.

The tree was there , and they were told not to eat it, meaning he was giving them a test , and a choice. Free will is real. God had always given us choices. We can choose goodness or sinfulness. For some amount of time they chose goodness.

So if they were able to die but kept alive by the fruit of the tree of life snd if they were able to be tempted by sin and choose evil how is there flesh any different from ours?

As for this book. It sounds interesting and I will try to get it soon, if it’s already out. I want to read it, especially since it’s a subject I’ve studied quite a bit not only from a accommodationist view, but also from the understanding of conditional immortality, I am really interested in how they theologically articulate their positions.

It is!

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Thanks. I made notes to look it up. IV Press looks like a good company too. Until recently, I’ve never thought about how Amazon is almost completely monopolizing many markets. Got interested in it specifically related to books because I have a handful of friends who deal with independent horror publishing companies and begin to realize that there are a bunch of small , and even larger publishing companies, that begin to disappear die to loss of book sales and so I’ve been trying to remember that an extra $5 for a book through a smaller company is helping to keep more jobs alive.

Though I understand you may have just randomly picked a company I was glad nonetheless to learn of a new company and book.

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Welcome to the 24th of November 1859.

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It’s the publisher! :slight_smile: I opted to post that link in lieu of the Amazon monster. :slight_smile:

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It is incorrect to say that small kids are guilty of Adam’s and Eve’s sin. I interpret the fall of Adam and Eve differently than you’ve expressed it. Apply modern knowledge that is true at all times and in all places to read the Fall and Return correctly. Children behave instinctively from birth when they are helpless and can do nothing for themselves. They only learn as their sense of selfhood develops. Until they have developed self-consciousness, and can choose their own behaviors and BE SELF-ISH, they cannot sin. Babies never need redemption, just like animals don’t need redemption. They all behave instinctively, exactly as they were created to behave, although at a certain point, a baby grows up into a man or woman, capable of anything.
Jesus favored children and said so many times.

"If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 18:6

Gospel of Thomas logions refer to the primacy of children:

4 Jesus said: the man old in days will not hesitate to ask a small child seven days old about the place of life, and he will live.


37 His disciples said when will you become revealed to us and when shall we see you? Jesus said: When you disrobe without being ashamed and take up your garments and place them under your feet like LITTLE CHILDREN and tread on them, then will you see the son of the living one and you will not be afraid.

The Return from the Fall is in logion 37.

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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