The Lies of AiG

It seems that another question can be whether accusing someone of a lie actually improves the search for truth at all. If they know they are lying, they will deny it. If they are confused or in self denial, they consider it an insult.
It seems that accusing anyone of lying is not conducive to conversation, personal growth, or relationship.


and, rather hilariously–

One can point out logical inconsistencies without labeling intent, whether intent is wrong or not. Thanks.

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I am asking for what you would NOT expect to see if the Earth were young and if there was a recent global flood.

Another worldwide flood.

Good one!
I tell people that if I find a receipt from McDonalds dated 2019 under the seat when cleaning out my car, it does not mean my car in 2 years old (I wish!)
We know quite well what 2000 years old looks like (just visit Rome), and what about 4000 years looks like (some of the first pyramids). There are thousands and thousands of examples compatible of what an ancient universe and earth look like, and having a few examples of recent creation is in no way contradictory to them. If you believe the earth is 6000 years old, and was essentially rebooted 4000 years ago, that is fine. But don’t think or claim that the evidence supports that position.

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Ever notice that the older the megaliths, the larger the stones they used and the more complex the engineering? Almost as if they began at the top and lost the know-how along the way.

How do you date them?

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For most discussions, I use the given ages by the experts. When you’re discussing something like the engineering involved in creating the sites, the exact age isn’t that important. Like Gobekli Tepe is one of the oldest known sites, whether it’s 4500 or 12000 years.

YECism rejects experts and their dating methods.

Well, unless the date matches up with what is expected from an interpretation of the Bible – then those dating methods are celebrated and cited as proof that the Bible is valid.

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These were actually some of the things that convinced me YEC couldn’t be true. They had to take a long time to form, and in water that was almost completely still or they wouldn’t have been able to settle to the bottom. There is a lot more in geology that YECs just invoke “the flood” to explain, and just leave it at that without really explaining, but real geology explain in great detail. How did the vast underground salt deposits form? How did limestone and marble form, both of which have those shells of plankton in them? How did the Hawaiian Islands form? Atolls and barrier reefs? Mountain chains? Mid-ocean ridges? Coal, oil and gas deposits?
Old Earth geologists have a much better explanation for everything than YEC geologists.

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As usual Patrick, you just blithely step over all the key points that show your position to be false and just fire back with more baseless claims and assumptions, and trying to straw man evolution. Try just stopping to take in what people are saying, understand it, digest it, and then use it to inspire you to go and learn proper science rather than regurgitating YEC misinformation sources that are designed to twist and hide and distort and deny reality to prop up your untenable beliefs.

@Patrick, this is another person telling you that you don’t know what you are talking about and that the YECs you follow also do not know, or are deliberately hiding information from you that shows that the situation is far more complex then they are letting on. In fact, if you actually go and learn the proper science, you quickly find that all the so called flood geology is shallow, flimsy nonsense. Ex-YECs who made the decision to go and learn the science and fact check the claims of the YEC apologists inevitably - if honest with themselves - find that the YEC claims are false.

This is just another argument from ignorance. We don’t know how these people moved those big stones, so there is something spooky or metaphysical or superhuman going on, and we must have lost information or knowledge perhaps provided by God. Since we don’t know the answer - therefore God must be behind this in some way ultimately, somehow.

If you watch the crankvideosphere you will always find these ‘experts’ saying we still have no idea how they moved these massive stones. Yet, many engineers who have explored the technology we know these people had, have identified ways that they could have done what they did. Still impressive, but not unimaginable or inexplicable at all. In fact, as part of my first degree in engineering, in first year mechanics we did a project around the monoliths of Stonehenge, and demonstrated straightforward ways they could have moved the stones and put them in place, just using rollers, water, stone and timber levers, counter-weights and simple digging equipment.

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I’ve already invited you once to stop replying if you can’t deal with the facts and leave your opinion of me out of your posts. This makes twice.

The only problem is you don’t have a long time with almost still water. Anywhere. How many tropical storms and hurricanes would have hit in just a few thousand years, much less millions? Tsunamis, earthquakes, asteroids?

So do most SF writers. That doesn’t make them right.

Right. There are so many that every possible location on the earth’s surface would be disturbed.

If you would bother to read up on the formation of sedimentary rocks you would learn that after being deposited in still water the grains undergo a process of compaction where the grains become cemented together. After this still water is no longer needed.

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Patrick, you have presented no facts, so therefore there is no reason to accept your ‘invitation’.

Besides, this is an open forum and you don’t get to in-invite (avoid) people because you don’t like what they have to say.

Why not simply learn the science? It really is not that hard. Other YECs have done it. Surely you could too? Surely that is a much letter way for all parties to find common ground and have meaningful and productive dialog? From what I can see, that really is the root cause of your problem.

Again, I invite you to learn the science and we can have a nice fruitful conversation.

I think it’s more complicated than that for most people. For many regular readers of AiG/CMI/ICR/etc., it is virtually impossible to pick up a geology book and learn from it. Everything is going to be filtered through the 6,000 year/global flood framework. I was personally taught to just ignore words like millions of years. I was taught that I was able to understand and read scientific papers better than the scientists who did the work themselves, again through constant reinforcement that scientists were basically godless fools. If I ever was challenged by something, I could usually search one of the sites and find some article written about it that put my mind at ease.

But at the end of the day, for many, it doesn’t matter that scientists have actually pretty robust explanations for things in the universe. I regularly teach many YEC who acknowledge that there is a lot of evidence for the big bang theory for example, but yet they easily just reject even after they come to understand why it is that scientists agree upon the core of the theory because of… how these students are interpreting a single word in the Old Testament. Because it really is God’s words vs. man’s words, it doesn’t matter what the science says. It can’t be right.

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False analogy, and false equivalence.

Science fiction writers are, by definition, offering a fictional story which is not being asserted as true and therefore there is no sense in which you could fault them for not being right.

Old earth Geologists - the only kind of geologist - base their results on evidence and facts. YECism is simply inventing a pseudoscience call Flood Geology which ignores the facts and evidence.

It would be far more accurate to compare Flood Geology with Science fiction, the only difference being that your YEC science fiction is not science but is claiming not to be fiction when it actually is.

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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