Not a bad idea.
Don’t be too optimistic. I’m 73 and in frail health; I’m still “on my horse”, but he tends to wander off the beaten track often, and I can’t be too confident how long I can stay in the saddle. 
My immediate question is: Are you the first and principal author of the theory you’re proposing or did you receive its fundamentals from someone else?
- Notes:
- I myself am not a devotee of “the standard model” in mainstream science. Consequently, I am not afraid to consider and believe things that are contrary to mainstream science.
- Although I am a Christian, my theology is eclectic. The Bible is important to me, but my view of its contents is flexible and liberal, but my flexibility has limits.
- That said, I am skeptical about your theory. But I am nobody, so we need not lose sleep when we disagree.
- You are obviously familiar with details outside of the Bible that I am unaware of. That is my handicap. I have lived in Greece for a year, and traved by car to Istanbul, across Turkey, Iran, and Afghanistan, Pakistan, and to India, where I traveled by train [specificly: New Delhi, Agra, and one day in Calcutta; then back to Greece. [I was one of the “hippies” that traveled to India in 1971.]
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My story is that Adam Noah Abraham Jacob Joseph and moses all lived in Indus valley. The land of Hindu Rama is called Kosala. That is biblical Canaan. So Joseph travelled within the Indus valley from kosala to mathura. The latter is recorded in the Bible as mitsrayim.
Adam Noah Abraham Jacob Joseph did not live in west Asia. This matches with there being no indication of an eastward travel of these persons.
I am the first author of this theory to my knowledge. And, I am 72. So join the club.
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So Israel is not the land that was promised to Abraham?
And when did the Hebrews get their geography confused? For instance, we are told in John that Jacob’s well was in Samaria when you would put it in India. Do you believe the geography in the New Testament, which aligns with the accepted geography of the Old Testament, is also incorrect?
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Not quite. The land that was promised to Abraham is marked by 2 rivers. That was in India. The land that was promised to moses at Sinai is marked by, if I recollect, three seas. That is modern Israel.
//And when did the Hebrews get their geography confused? For instance, we are told in John that Jacob’s well was in Samaria when you would put it in India. Do you believe the geography in the New Testament, which aligns with the accepted geography of the Old Testament, is also incorrect?//
The Hebrews were exiled c. 600 bce. Thereafter, on his return Ezra got hold of the Torah in Jerusalem. Perhaps the oral memories were lost in this time. The Hebrews relocated the places in west Asia.
Another possibility is that this was done at the time of LXX. One would have to study the believed geography between 600 & 300 bce to get a better answer for this.
Regardin NT, to be honest, I have not studied in detail. It cannot be precluded that they followed the west asian geography uncritically. Remember that aristotle believed that the Jews came from india. There are other feeble evidences too. So the idea was present though on the fringes.
I would be thankful if you would point out the use of pre.exodus names in NT in contemporaneous sense. I will try to look them up.
Not quite. While standing by the Jordan river Abraham was promised
So a people for which the land was of prime importance would forget their basic geography? Sorry but I am not buying it.
It shows.
John 4:5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph.
What you are arguing is that after the Exile the Hebrews forgot their geography and randomly picked new locations for everything in the pre-Exodus history, such as Jacob’s well for one. Ignoring the fact that not all Hebrews actually went into Exile and some remained in the land and so would have reason to keep their geography straight.
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//Not quite. While standing by the Jordan river Abraham was promised//
[15:18]
That day the Lord made a covenant [50] with Abram: “To your descendants I give [51] this land, from the river of Egypt [52]to the great river, the Euphrates River.
The Hebrew Bible does not give the names Egypt and Euphrates. It uses nahar to nahar.
It’s not unusual for people to drop in here to promote their unusual theories. I’m reminded of Atomic Biology.
You are justified. But then it falls on yr shoulders to explain no 4 rivers of Eden, no flood of 150 days, no parting of the sea, no volcano and so on and on. Think if the blacks in the us remember the location of their homeland barely 3 centuries ago.
This indeed stands against my theory. However, it may be that Jesus simply followed the prevalent view of geography.
//What you are arguing is that after the Exile the Hebrews forgot their geography and randomly picked new locations for everything in the pre-Exodus history, such / as Jacob’s well for one. Ignoring the fact that not all Hebrews actually went into Exile and some remained in the land and so would have reason to keep their geography straight
Yes. But not random. They made best fit.
Also, how many Jews were left? Did they remember? We cannot be certain. But your theory also has its merits.
Abraham and Jesus and Copernicus and Darwin and lincoln were all atomic biologists.
Mind blown
Genesis 1-11 is not history.
And is only one example. And you ignored my point that not all Hebrews went into exile. Do those who remained in their homeland also forget their geography? They forgot the location of Jacob’s well, the burial place of Joseph, the location of Mitsrayim, etc. etc.
Really? They studied the pre-Exodus geography and worked out what would be the best fit? Your theory, like YEC, starts to require more and more stretches to make it fit.
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There are different views on this. I am inclined to believe that an inspired text means what it says.
Why is that not possible. We have to assess this possibility in the light of so many geographical contradictions. Further, the Joseph’s land and Jacobs well are really traditions. These are not geography like rivers and mountains. Show me please a NT reference to 4 rivers and the like in west Asia.
What’s atomic biology? I’ve heard of quantum biology, but not that.
Just asking because it sounds like good sci fi material I could make use of.
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Oh, it’s science fiction all right but not good sci fi. See this thread
and look for the guy called “GodsBiology”
It’s an intelligent design type of anti-science with a twist: God uses just the right number of atoms and molecules to build living organisms. When I pointed out that this wasn’t the case the conversation turned darker, and he suggested that God was punishing people who have diseases. He has written a book and wanted people on BioLogos to promote it. Such chutzpah! This is his website
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So the earth is only 6,000 years old?
Assuming you mean the 4 rivers that flowed from Eden, all of them didn’t exist during NT times. However, when you remember that the Persian Gulf was not always there, there are several rivers that are currently under water that would place Eden in the normally accepted location. And the flooding of the Gulf provides the source for the flood story.
For the simple reason there were Hebrews living next to Jacob’s well for the duration of the exile. I can understand the exact location of Jacob’s well might be lost to those in exile but not for those still living there. You want to invoke a mass cultural amnesia to make your theory fit. Sorry but Occam’s Razor says your are wrong.
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- Re: It will take me some time to locate most of the places named in your three lists.
- Re: the journeys of (a) Moses to Midian and back, (b) Moses and the Israelites to Mt. Sinai/Horeb; (c) Jethro and Moses’ wife and sons to join Moses and the Israelites near Mt. Sinai/Horeb; (d) Saul and his soldiers to attack the Amalekites; and (e) Elijah to Mt. Sinai/Horeb.
- Of primary interest to me is the last, Elijah’s journey to Mt. Sinai/Horeb, because the Bible tells us that he made his journey in 40 days and nights and we know that Ahab reigned about 874–853 BC in Israel.
- I “guesstimated” that he might have walked 25 miles/day X 40 days - 1,000. You suggest that he could have traveled 80 km/day [i.e. close to 50 miles/day. I’ve never been a hiker, but I have been looking through the information about The 14 Most Famous Hikers of All Time (Male and Female) – Greenbelly Meals. The latter were experienced long-distance hikers and traveled with packs. Elijah was also a walker, but he was not carrying food or water. Bottom line: I am reluctant to believe that Elijah could travel nearly 2,000 miles in 40 days with no food or water, except what an angel may have provided. IMO 1,000 miles boggles my mind, but seems more do-able.
- Of primary interest to me is the last, Elijah’s journey to Mt. Sinai/Horeb, because the Bible tells us that he made his journey in 40 days and nights and we know that Ahab reigned about 874–853 BC in Israel.
- You certainly have a hard row to plow ahead of you, Bharat. And this forum is just the beginning. Conservative Christians, Orthodox Jews, and Muslims–all of whom have even stronger, higher views of their Scriptures than I have–may be as encouraging as a “swarm of hornets”.
Good luck and be safe.
–Terry
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