Please stop putting words in my mouth! Did I say that police killing Floyd was not racism? Please review my responses above.
2 Likes
What is hardened heart in relation with words exclusion and inclusion, can you expand on this within the Exodus era?
Exodus 9:12
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses
Exodus 9:13
Then the LORD said to Moses, “Get up early in the morning, confront Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, says: Let my people go, so that they may worship me
I randomly landed on your message and read and I have no understanding at all what I just read.
I look up what is hyperbolic, and bing search engine explains = relating to a hyperbola = (of a function, e.g., a cosine) having the same relation to a rectangular hyperbola as the unqualified function does to a circle = (of language) exaggerated; hyperbolical
So question as I’ll look further into this., what is hyperbolic reading of the numbers relation to Exodus?
Next question as I understand God light as true time and true currency: what is hyperbolic reading of the numbers in relation to true time and true currency?
What I do with Exodus and with any books is ask what can I learn from this? Is this what you do with Exodus too, or what do you do with Exodus?
While a hyperbola is indeed a mathematical curve (one of the conics), hyperbole (your definition #2) is the one you’re after here: it means an exaggeration. I’m not sure those two meaning have any common etymology or root meanings, but on the surface they appear unrelated to each other. And the adjective hyperbolic applies to both of the meanings. So we pick the 2nd one here because of context.
What people usually mean by hyperbolic reading of the numbers given in Exodus (or Genesis) is the presumption that numbers were chosen for significance other than providing what we would call a factual count. Forty was often a value symbolic of “completeness” to the Hebrews, so when they divided Moses’ life into three periods of 40 years each - maybe Moses actually lived that long, and his pivotal life moments may have landed exactly on those year markers … or maybe they were assigned that way by later redacters because … you know … Moses. Or did the Israelites really wipe out every last one of …? The text sometimes indicates so directly, but then later we hear of such and such, not only existing, but sometimes even becoming part of the later Israelite story or genealogies! So sometimes hyperbole is more explicit - as the text itself later provides means of seeing that. Or sometimes we may merely suspect it (as with Moses’ given ages). Narrative contests back then did not expect to win any points or admiration by claiming: “well, our God mostly prevailed over all you and your gods … we managed to defeat 2/3 of you!” No. No. Just as cheerleaders in sporting events today wouldn’t be caught dead giving a cheer like “we might beat you …” or “our team is mostly better than yours,” they instead go with the more predictable narrative “we’re gonna mop the court with you; our victory will be complete and final!” My God is bigger than your god. Go team!
That’s probably the explanation for most ‘hyperbolic’ style readings, though others can get more complicated and numerologists love having a field day with patriarchal ages in Genesis and such. But there you have it.
4 Likes
Isfahan is located in today’s country Iran, if I understand correctly from looking at the map, right?
How would you word this so you can use today’s countries while also articulating from the past Exodus era? So I can use countries of today, when explaining locations from the Exodus era, can you give me examples?
I appreciate this.
I remember watching a video that mentions water turning red via a type of red alge, i have to try and find it.
1 Like
OK. Thx. Let us get back to the Exodus. My humble submission: Hindus have degraded. But that does not cancel the possibility of an Indus Valley origin of the Exodus at 3500 BCE when Hindus may have been different. So we need to examine the evidence for Exodus from Indus Valley keeping aside the present degradations of Hinduism.
//Exodus 9:12
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses//
I do not see this to be important. It is like Hitler’s heart being hardened. Human being are free to be hard or soft.
Firstly, there is no “red” in the Bible. The word is Yam Suf. It means roaring waters. Secondly, even if we take the tradition of “Red Sea,” it could be the red-sediment laden waters of the Indus River.
But the reason the verse is so infamous is because Yahweh is the one doing the hardening not Pharaoh himself.
Sadly, I fear you are trying to make the evidence fit your conclusion rather than drawing conclusions from the evidence. If we go down this road, any large body of water could stand in for the Red Sea and any high mountain for Sanai, no?
5 Likes
Sea of reeds is the literal translation.
And if you want to move it to the Indus River then you have to explain how the many references to Yam Suf in the OT geography could fit. Which is going to be difficult.
2 Likes
There is no evidence. No reputable biblical scholar believes that.
2 Likes
Are There Oceanographic Explanations for the Israelites’ Crossing of the Red Sea?
Doron Nof and Nathan Paldor Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Vol. 73, No. 3 (March 1992), pp. 305-314 (10 pages) Are There Oceanographic Explanations for the Israelites' Crossing of the Red Sea? on JSTOR has one analysis of a possible wind-driven “parting” of the sea, though it’s not the seiche reference that I am trying to track down.
3 Likes
The Indus River was the Yam Suph or Yam Suf. Are there two ways of spelling? Or am I confusing Yam Suph and Yam Suf, can you help me understand?
I would humbly request you to reconsider. The case for Indus river rests on (1) a mud volcano may have obstructed the incoming waters and enabled the Hebrews to cross on dry ground. (2) The name Pi-Hahiroth is associated with sedges that grow here. (3) The Pharaoh could not cricle around the Indus River and catch the Hebrews on the other side. (4) The bitter lakes are located on the short route while Indus River could be crossed farther away on the “long route.”
The case for Sinai at Taftan rests on (1) location on the path from Indus Valley to Israel; (2) It being a live volcano emitting sulphuric gasses that matches with the Biblical descriptions; (3) archaeological evidence for habitation is available. (4) A place named Paran located near Isfahan.
I am aware that it appears out-of-the-world to suggest Exodus from the Indus Valley. But “research” is re-search. Please rest assured this will remove so many problems of Biblical historicity. All I ask is that please consider this possibility. Thanks.
There are more ideas that are pretty much “out there.” The LDS teach that after the fall of Jerusalem, a group of ancient Jews sailed to the Americas and became the ancestors of the Native Americans. Zero evidence for this, but whatever.
2 Likes
That makes a lot of sense and I thought this too about the bible being hyperbolic.
I’m relieved that I know God who’s the living word, who lives in me, who’s my best friend. So I can allow God living word teach me., because I surely don’t want to only depend on a hyperbolic bible.
So as the bible has hyperbolic happening, that’s another area one has to analyze through?
So how to included Exodus in this due to this is an Exodus thread
Oh here’s an idea how to include Exodus, are you ready for this?
Is this hyperbolic too, when Ptolemy ruler of KMT (Egypt) added to the Torah, asking 70 Priest where Mitsrayim is located; I mean why ask Priest for., how come Ptolemy didn’t ask any Jewish archaeologist because archaeologist understand rivers and land, so due to asking Jewish Priest where Mitsrayim is, did this cause a hyperbolic situation? What evidence was applied when asking where Mitsrayim is located, and then was added to the Torah?
Keep in mind that through most of recorded history, most of the masses would have been illiterate and uneducated. Likely for many of them, their only access to somebody of knowledge (if they had any such access at all) would have been to somebody of a priestly or clerical class that had been privileged to be set apart from ordinary survival pursuits so that they could devote themselves to studies of higher things for the benefit of their community. The knowledge holders back then - of all types of knowledge - not just what we today would call religious training - would have been the priests or clerics. You went to them if you wanted to know anything that required more education than you yourself likely had access to.
Want to see Mount Sinai Taftan volcano in Iran: here’s YouTube video https://youtu.be/ePnwS0nb_7k
My question is, how did Moses breathe comfortably for 40 days when breathing volcano gas?
